That's just bonkers.
Of all the places for a crazy bug like this to be found, this seems like one of the least bonkers. :) And the excellent thing about Apple is that if you did brick it, Apple would just exchange it for you for free since it's their own defect.
Doesn't sound particularly bad, especially when compared to the situation in other industries (e.g. cars and all the special proprietary OBD stuff they do).
1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211983 (specifically, "Or use a bootable installer")
Which PCs do that? Where do they store, on the ESP?
We are talking about a system which just underwent a huge architectural change as well as a new major release of the operating system. I think it is unreasonable to expect the same level of stability as a decades-old architecture only a couple months after release.
You can see in this case the issue is apparently already patched. It seems only with the very first software to have ever shipped on the device would you experience a bug such as this.
The M1 benefits from its relation to the silicon in iPhone and iOS being based on MacOS but there are major differences. It’s a revolutionary mobile computing platform. So far the biggest problems have been a few software glitches that can quickly be patched over the internet. This is a trivial set of issues to trade for the power / performance gains.
I’m looking forward to the newer 16” models coming out. I still need Windows on my computer for my workflows though so if the virtualization isn’t even beta quality I’ll need to be an Intel holdout for a while longer.
I’m running the beta of Parallels on M1. Windows works fine, though Parallels itself is still a work in progress. The issue is only licensing with MS, who currently don’t license Win for ARM independently. Then it’s just a question of whether you’re willing to enter a licensing grey area, similar to when you want to pay for content but it isn’t available in a legal format (thus, a person turns to a torrent). This is not an endorsement, just an observation.
It seems straightforward.
Apple will test and fix bugs they find, as much as humanly possible, within the constraints of execution. You don’t just decide to launch on a whim, it’s baked in 3 years previously, with tens of thousands of people working towards that one goal; with supply ramps for multiple other companies arranged and enabled; with well-known public launch dates that can realistically only give you a few days wiggle room. The fact that they do this at all is a breathtaking success and a testament to the business - this applies to any such at-scale business, not just Apple.
So they’ve covered 99.9% of all boot issues before launch. As the CEO, do you go ahead ? Or do you miss the launch date, possibly invite legal action from your supply chain or worse, a critical manufacturer folds because of cash flow, and do you risk the reputation and stock price hit of a company as large as Apple “swinging and missing” in the press ?
I think it’s pretty clear what the correct choice is, and even though 0.1% of those millions of devices still adds up to a sizable number of complaints, you’re still way ahead of the game. And you get to keep that well-oiled machine moving forwards rather than stalling.
Apple has priorities. They may not be your priorities. If they differ sufficiently, you should go elsewhere, and if sufficient people agree with you and do the same, Apple will realign its priorities. I wouldn’t hold your breath though.
Talk about making mountains out of molehills...
Not a software engineer then?
You were trading security for “stability”.
Because they just changed the foundation that the entire system is built on top of.
Because they progressed so far forward in security. Design is an exercise in priorities and trade-offs. The ability to wipe your Mac is now second fiddle to the ability to secure your Mac.
Need I point out Best Buy was the start of this kerfuffle?
Shipping something that cannot uninstall/reinstall cleanly is shipping a not even half functional base device. Ubiquity of Internet access is not a crutch that can be counted on at all times. The fact that modern hardware vendors are starting to assume that is disturbing, and likely another symptom of companies slowly trying to acclimate users to not really "owning" what it is they bought.
Some would posit that such scenarios should be some of the most important, because when you need to do such recovery, such scenarios can become immensely vital.
I can't say I'm shocked.
Apple's free Configurator 2 utility is much quicker than the Windows 10 "Reset this PC" functionality, and will factory reset an M1 Mac even if the system is unbootable.
Since when do technical people believe dudes at Best Buy?
In any case, the solution would be "download a newer version of the OS and make some installation media like a usb".
Luckily, the recovery OS can still connect to wifi, so you can skip the whole "make an installation media" step. You just download the new installer and run it.
It really doesn't seem bonkers to me.
It's amazing what where the gods of UX have taken us.
But even with the bugged first version of macOS, the laptops are still recoverable - you just need another Mac with Apple Configurator 2 to get around the bug. Something you would think the Geek Squad should be able to handle (yes, that was sarcasm).
All you really needed to do was boot into recovery mode, launch disk utility then nuke the disk. If they want to re-install the OS, let them. I ended up taking my Air back to Apple because it turned out I really do need more than 16GB for RAM for a few things (shoot!) and I just nuked the drive. They didn't even bat an eye.
Otherwise, does anyone know a good solid laptop that I can install linux on without driver / battery issues?
It even became not bootable in the first day. And I mean completely not bootable. You can't boot it from external usb stick. You can't do anything without 'another Mac' to 'revive' it as they call it. (see here for description: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203799 and I have described more of the bugs in this thread)
I can't say this about MacBookPro of 2009. This one worked. But the model of 2015 just have fallen apart. (You can dig in my comments how. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25809097)
This M1 became not bootable because their Disk Utility in recovery options become unresponsive at some point and then it showed black screen containing exclamation mark with url where they tell you that you need another Mac to revive this one. Somehow not this black screen with exclamation mark nor the web pages it points to did not mention that there is another boot option that is discussed here. Look for idiotic explanations for that fact around this thread. And see how I've been downvoted for stating that fact.
"Very fast" some say? I still wish to see it, because so far it feels just like the one I had before or slower! I am not talking about benchmarks, I am talking about day to day experience. Example: Screen shot (cmd-shift-4) takes ~1-2 seconds for cross-cursor to appear.
The saddest thing that all of my attempts to communicate about the problems are ignored or facing downvotes instead of digging into it and trying to find out why it happened which was my initial intent and what I was expecting to happen at least here. Instead I observe some bs like "oh, I never heard about any problems or let's ignore those problems because perhaps it's your hardware". But even if it is? It's still an issue! BTW I ran apple diagnostics and it shows "no issues found". So I've seen no evidence for any hardware issues so far.
With such attitude when attack goes toward the messenger and not toward the problem It's hard for me to expect a brighter future with that or that those issues would be fixed. They perhaps would simply pretend that nothing has happened and everything is perfect. And at this point I am getting sick of this BS. If this bullying mechanism would not be removed from HN I see no reason to be reasonable here or trying to contribute
The day 1 boot issue is fixed if you have applied any update since then. You never responded if you took your machine to Apple and see what their hardware diagnostic tool said. But, it's clear you're angry you got a dud machine, and instead of replacing you want to complain. That's fine.
It is always a possibility but even in that case it's the quality issue. Who cares whether it is software or hardware ? It could be hardware but how anyone can be sure about it? At least Apple diagnostics says: no issues found. I have not seen direct evidence of that so far. All bugs are perfectly explainable by other reasons. But even if it's a dud machine, it's still the buggiest one I ever had. Why should I care it's software or hardware.
>You never responded if you took your machine to Apple and see what their hardware diagnostic tool said.
I am stuck with covid situation in another country. There is no Apple here, no "their hardware diagnostic tool" and there is no way to find out what it says. I need to work and this Mac is the only one I have, so sending it somewhere for two or four weeks is not an option. I need to work on my software I develop.
>you keep insisting all m1 Macs have your issues.
Where I have said it at least once? I was just sharing facts of my experience and my feelings about the situation. I suggested it can be a tendency because my experience tells me so but I never claimed it as a fact. Actually I expected to hear what wrong can be in the software part and I've got zero answers of that sort. This is what I call "not listening". Expressed shortly in: "oh it's just a dud machine, let's ignore it".
>The many many reviews...
I've seen many many reviews and rarely one of them manages to spot all issues that I am aware of. I am not talking about this M1, it's usually like this with many many products. They do not even mention problems I notice. This the quality of those many many reviews. Show me one that goes thoroughly throw all problems of some product. Usually they miss issues and honestly I get used to it. It's just me? I didn't think it's such a big secret that reviews usually have poor quality.
>your experience is not normal (cmd-shift-4 is instant ...
who measured it properly? what 'instant' even means? I didn't see one measure in answers here. Among other problems I have mentioned it's the only one that could be related to some 'dud machine'. Boot problems turns out to be known and not only on my machine. Garage band problem I believe related to bluetooth and some bug there and I suspect it is also not only on may machine, because I've seen many people voted up this, while (to my surprise) some downvoted even that. I mean why? Even if you do not have some bug or failed to reproduce it it's better to be voted up to check it and fix it. When I write software I would better check possible bug rather then ignore it which appears as insane thing to do.
But the main point is not those bugs I've mentioned. Those were presented just for example. The point there was that there are a lot of bugs that I _didn't_ mention. A lot of bugs are traveling from release to release and nobody cares to fix them like those in Disk Utility. They are not too hard to find. One of them made my machine not bootable. Others just annoying but less destructive. Still tbey are there. I am not talking about overcomplicated things. I am talking about basic things like formatting the usb drive, where Disk Utility fails to format it just because it fails to unmount it and it fails to unmount it just because it is in use by the very Disk Utility for example. I am talking about this level of bugs in very essential part of Mac software.
>it's clear you're angry you got a dud machine, and instead of replacing you want to complain. That's fine.
Yes, at this point I am angry because I paid money and getting shit doesn't work. But even this is not why I am angry. I am angry when BS starts to prevail instead of a reason, facts and logic and when it starting to prevail in forum like this one that really is upsetting.
>you got a dud machine we still do not know that for sure.
>and instead of replacing you want to complain.
I can't replace it in current situation and if it's dud I'll have to work with what I have, at least until I'll fix my second machine. The thing is I do not want to complain honestly it doesn't help me too much. My intent was to tell the truth , to tell exactly what have happened, to make other people aware that such problems do exist so they can try to avoid them or or get them fixed. And I am getting angry that even that is impossible to do because of downvoting. There should be no downvoting on this site for stating the facts.
This is very different from how have described my situation and intents and unfortunately it could easily fall into category of 'not listening' But at least you've managed to tell what you think instead of downvoting and I am grateful to you for that.
Similarly, if one wants to replace Windows 10S with Linux, have to either have or create a Microsoft account and then have to upgrade to Windows Home via a large download ...
There’s a link near the bottom of the window to skip creating an MS account. Source: I did this last week.
Read the comment the parent is replying to. It implies that the cruft of legacy architectures is to support these scenarios and Apple didn’t realize that. Both things are laughably wrong and the parent pointed out why the latter is so ridiculous.
And then we also have someone complaining they just did this on a whim and that they did it because they're basically gods and how dare you question them.
And did that for the third time nonetheless.
Ok. For the second time, because the first one was on an entirely different OS.
Nobody claimed apple doesn't understand computers, thats your mischaracterization of the AP.
So they quickly repurposed all the iDevice stuff, minimally expanding the boot process to be more open and general-purpose-computer-like.
They could've built the SoC differently (with standard Arm components – GIC, SMMU, PL011… – instead of custom ones), could've used UEFI+ACPI, storing the firmware on a typical SPI flash chip, and so on. But that was not done because that stuff doesn't do much for the business objectives of the company, since what's being marketed is the full experience with macOS, not an interoperable standard platform for your favorite Unix. And so they went the easy, lazy, proprietary way.
Sometimes, it's because {situation that no longer happens / is relevant}.
Sometimes, it's because {situation no one thinks would happen, but does with non-zero frequency in large deployments}. E.g. road debris forming a high force, sharpened spike directly into Tesla battery packs.
Do you genuinely think “bugs might happen” is a legitimate reason for a computer manufacturer to leave on the table the absolutely massive perf and perf per watt gains Apple has demonstrated with the M1?