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Comment by lordnacho | Hacker News Reader

I don't know anything about how the law works, but it seems to accord with the reality of how people tend to think of jobs.

Have you ever met an Uber driver who didn't give the impression that this was what he did all the time? I haven't, though I imagine not everyone is full time. It's quite a way from the idea that anyone with a car can give someone else a ride. For instance, I've never met a driver who happened to be going where I was going, or someone who thought they'd just make few extra bucks on their day off. They must exist but it seems to not be the norm.

At the same time, we're shoehorning old ideas of what's work into a modern setting, because it's reasonably quick to become a driver, and communications with the employer are minimal. Uber doesn't seem like the kind of firm where drivers might have a teambuilding excursion, though perhaps I'm wrong.

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> Uber doesn't seem like the kind of firm where drivers might have a teambuilding excursion

Uber seems like the kind of firm that would actively discourage drivers from speaking to each other.

Is whether someone “does it all day” a factor in determining if they are a employee versus contractor?

Plenty of contractors work all day long.

But most contractors don't work all day long, all days for the same client though. That's the point.

Is the client Uber or the rider? In my corporate job I work with contractors who do full time for us for months at a time. They were paid by a placement agency, but we are the client.

If the contractors who do full time work are paid by a placement agency to be a full-time employee, that's possibly fraud...

In the case of Uber, it's very clear that the contractors work for Uber, as it's Uber the one that sets the conditions of the job.

Meh... this was a big multinational so I doubt they are committing fraud.

They were paid by the placement agency and the contractor was responsible for all self-employment taxes.

> Meh... this was a big multinational so I doubt they are committing fraud.

I actually think that a big multinational is more likely to commit these kinds of frauds. In fact, a full time employee that works only for one company and who's sent by a placement agency sounds a lot like fake self-employment.

In some countries, Uber has advanced a narrative that driving for Uber is a side gig, with their drivers fitting driving in around other jobs.

This allows them to argue that, for example, they shouldn't have to pay for health insurance or unemployment or sick pay or vehicle depreciation for someone who only works 4 hours a week.

In the UK Uber hasn't made this argument much, as their drivers all have to be licensed minicab drivers - most of whom have driving as their primary source of income.

Actually yeah a substantial number of my Uber drivers do it as a side gig while doing other things or while driving around. Food delivery was a big one but a lot had businesses and used Uber for extra cashflow.

This was in Montreal, maybe it’s different in the US. Though most of the drivers I talked to there delivered for Lyft too.

If 30% of people work “full time” (8 hours day, 5 days a week) and the other 70% work on average 5 hours a week, that’s a ~77% chance you get a “full time” driver.

So Uber really is more like a huge Taxi company with freelance drivers and an app.

> Have you ever met an Uber driver who didn't give the impression that this was what he did all the time?

My impression is that every Uber driver I have met, in the UK, was also working for a more traditional driver agency.

I believe it's contractual that Uber drivers are not allowed to give this impression?

> Have you ever met an Uber driver who didn't give the impression that this was what he did all the time?

Yes, most of the Uber drivers I’ve had over the years were doing it part time, or to fill in between jobs. I’ve only met one driver who considered driving his only job, and he was retired from his 40 year tech career and drove to get out of the house.

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