New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing
tidbits.com
tidbits.com
Why is it a membrane keyboard, when previous models were not? Because it is much cheaper to make.
Why does the Model M has only loosely fitting case parts? Because it is much cheaper to make.
Why does the Model M has plastic rivets that hold the membrane stackup together which always break off due to ageing and bad design after 20 years or so? Because it is much cheaper to make.
Why does the Model M have a single-piece barrel plate with barrels that occasionally break off, rendering the entire keyboard garbage? Because it is much cheaper to make.
Why does the Model M have essentially zero spill resistance? Because the cheap design doesn't permit spill resistance. When you spill water on an M, expect to either have it dry for weeks or months as the water evaporates from between the membranes, or to disassemble it. If it wasn't pure mountain spring water, you have to disassemble it, which--due to plastic rivets-- is a destructive proecss. To reassemble it, you have to drill a bunch of new holes through the actual keyboard parts to put screws in.
Yet despite these significant design and longevity issues the M somehow got a legendary reputation for being "solid"... it really isn't.
Go look at Model F reproductions. Those are solid keyboards. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/
Hmm that would explain why my (Dell branded) buckling spring keyboard that i was using in the 2000s couldn't recover from a Pepsi spill.
> Go look at Model F reproductions. Those are solid keyboards.
Unfortunately the world has moved on and I want my separated inverted T arrow keys.
> New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard
As an EU resident, when I see that I think I'll have to deal with customs if i buy one :) Not much of an incentive.
> As an EU resident, when I see that I think I'll have to deal with customs if i buy one :) Not much of an incentive.
Weird nationalism play there for me as well. For some reason japanese keyboard sounds artisan(given how many limited edition keyboards their scene builds) to me and american-made keyboard just sounds like grandure posturing. Especially since there are so many expensive japanese custom keyboards and none of them market themselves as being special BECAUSE they are japanese.
That said, QMK running decent quality mechanical keyboards nowadays are a rabbit hole with so many choices and price ranges that I find both this and the System76 announcement strange.
Edit: American-Made when used as a label to say how great your product is, absolutely IS appealing to national pride. Shipping cost is hardly relevant there.
Besides the shipping costs, there's also customs and VAT. So for a 100$ I'll probably end up with paying 300$. So yeah, not gonna happen, too bad Unicomp doesn't have a EU reseller.
They have more modern layouts including inverted T arrows. Just look at the pictures on the homepage...
Maybe after scrolling there are pictures of more modern layouts, but not before. 16:10 deskop monitor with the browser maximized.
> to me and american-made keyboard just sounds like grandure posturing
It makes me think of Razer requiring to be signed into a cloud account to configure your mouse and keyboard.
Yeah, I know they gave up on that, but only because of the backslash. That's no reason to buy from them again.
Maybe they do A/B testing if you see a non compact one when opening the page.
The one you're circling is still compact to me.
I think my ideal keyboard would be something like the Moonlander + the keys on the new macbook: a little bit of a click but basically zero travel.
I hated the new MacBook keys the instant I tried them. It felt like I was typing directly on the table. I had no problem with accuracy, but I found it really uncomfortable.
I guess it is like a mattress, some people prefer it firm and others prefer it soft.
I have a Topre keyboard BTW, which I chose by going to a shop and trying plenty of different keyboards without looking at the price and specs. Unfortunately, I ended up preferring the most expensive one...
Obviously that is not healthy or sustainable in the long term for other reasons but it’s a huge weight off my shoulders not thinking I’m ruining my wrists trying to meet a launch date.
Honestly, I have no idea what will replace it when/if it finally gives up the ghost.
[1] I bought it back when USB keyboards were the hot new thing to have, back in the stone age.
I've tried lots of other keyboards including cherry keys, and did not feel as solid. I think it's because the topre keys move up and down in a plastic cylinder that prevents side to side wiggling. I seem to type more accurately.
My previous favorite keyboard was an apple keyboard (older non-flat version) and I thought it was great. Then after getting used to the topre keyboard, I laughed - it didn't feel very good.
I had bought or built various mechanical keyboards, before settling on Topre switches. Topre switches are an obsession killer; many people find them vastly superior to any mechanical switch, and the customization options are nonexistent. One can't post pretty pictures of one's newest keycap set; one has to focus on the QMK keymap.
- They are loud
- They are expensive
- The keys are massive and ugly
- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)
Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard.
If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please know that was not my intention. I really don't see the appeal, and I haven't been able to find any advantages (mentioned online or by asking friends that have them). I would love it if someone could explain to me what the actual advantages are, and/or why I am wrong on any of the points I mentioned.
- They are loud
They can be loud, depending on the switches you get. However, some people feel that they benefit from it. The loud clicks are satisfying in some way. Maybe it's an ASMR thing for some people. For me, the sound feels like feedback.
- They are expensive
They can be. But so can regular keyboards. My first mechanical was like $40.
- The keys are massive and ugly
Unless you put low profile switches on your keyboard
- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)
Unless you put fast switches on your keyboard. The clickiest keys tend to be the slowest, but I don't type more than 80 words per minute anyway, and when I'm coding a lot less than that. But you can definitely get faster switches.
Here's another reason: it's fun. It's just fun. Sure maybe it's just cosplaying as a hacker, but it's still fun.
And most mechanicals can be remapped really easily, to allow custom workflows. Or layers. What I may potentially lose in words per minute, I gain by creating an intuitive key map that lets me reach the keys that I actually need day to day.
It’s worth noting that for folks who don’t know proper typing technique (which is probably nearly everybody under the age of 40, as nobody really teaches it any more, at least in the countries where I’ve lived) it almost doesn’t matter what sort of mechanical switch you’re using, in terms of noise.
In my experience, the majority of mechanical keyboard noise for most folks doesn’t actually come from the switches at all; it comes from the keys noisily bottoming out on each keystroke.
My theory is that most folks these days learned to type on membrane keyboards where you have to bottom out the keys (often with quite a lot of force, if the keyboard is old), or else on a laptop’s scissor switches where you can’t avoid bottoming out due to the extremely short throw, and so everyone’s just typing with much more force than necessary and driving the keys all the way down to the backplate on every press because that’s what they had to do with the keyboards they learned on.
Which of course makes typing far less pleasant, and also much noisier! The complaints are totally understandable, from that perspective.
This also links into the “Massive travel time” comment; most folks push the keys much too far down while typing on mechanical keyboards!
Cherry MX Blue switches (as one example) actuate at 2mm, which is almost exactly the same distance as most (non-Apple) laptop scissor switches. The only reason that a mechanical keyboard would have “massive travel time” compared to a laptop keyboard is if you’re needlessly pushing the keys all the way down, when you actually only need a gentle tap on them.
For several years, sometimes I slacked off and just typed on my Mac keyboard, and fingers would start getting sore again so I'd switch back to the mechs. Now I've apparently healed up a bit and a modest amount of laptop typing doesn't bother me, but I still bring out the mechs for more substantial work.
I have learned to touchtype about 80WPM in my teens, over 2 decades ago and I still have hard time not bottoming out or using right shift key.
I have been successful in re-learning to use dvorak instead of qwerty and to type in a tempo (ie. with equal intervals, using metronome), but the bottoming dynamic is much more basic than that, I think.
Manual typewriters, though, had a /huge/ amount of travel, and since the travel provides the force to strike the type on to the paper, you really had to hammer on them.
Came here to say the same thing. But then I was stuck on keyboards that required bottoming out for many years. It's been a re-learning process to not bottom out on my fairly keychron k2. But, wow so pleasant to use.
I hate this. It's uncomfortable. If you aren't old enough to have used a good laptop before laptops could be thinner than two inches, you can think of modern laptop keyboards as the 21st century equivalent of a girdle. You give up a certain amount of comfort, but hey, at least you look sexy.
I guess we won't have comfortable laptop keyboards again until the electronics and battery are small enough to fit entirely under the palm rests and trackpad.
I miss old laptop input devices, wish someone still made a laptop with a built in trackball too!
I personally would love a return to keyboards at the front edge of the laptop, with a side mounted trackball; but I doubt I'll see that.
My wife does a lot of sewing and garment making. She has convinced me that a properly designed and fitted girdle is actually a net-benefit for people. The trouble is proper fit is hard at a mass scale, which is why women transitioned to bras, which also have notorious fit issues, but are at least manageable when mass produced.
I eventually realised that you’re supposed to press them gently, like you might with a camera shutter, just past the actuation point. Now I type faster, it feels better, and it’s really quiet.
There are silicon o-rings that you can place around the stem peg of the keycap. It's like a $15 mod, takes about maybe a half-hour for a whole keyboard. It will definitely dampen the sound of the key bottoming out and will be a lot quieter and remove the blunt "shock" in your fingertips of bottoming out.
This is interesting!. I learn typing in a VERY old mechanical typewriter, then in an electronic one, then in a computer keyboard.
You need to hammer the keys in the old typewriter, like hitting with all the force in the world. But in the electronic it was so soft! Then the computers come and was like in the middle.
I made my own mechanical keyboard, and looking at it, I bottom up around the "middle", not going full force. Also, I HEAR if I hitting it too hard, so I can "lower" the sound mid-tipyng! Cool to have feedback!
There were two IBM Selectrics in the back of the room, and everything else was manual. There was a schedule for the lucky two.
I think we had more than one Apple ][ for after-school signup at that point, but I'm not sure.
So I learned the traditional way with an egg timer and a spiral-bound exercise book on a stand. Curled fingers. I still type this way, and I can still do about 170+ wpm depending on how many cups of coffee I've had.
Later, this really helped me when I got an IBM Model F keyboard or Sun UNIX keyboard and when I would fly around Vi like a keyboard assassin it would amaze my colleagues. My current keyboard is a mechanical Ducky with Cherry MX Brown switches: https://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/Ducky-One-Golden-grey-TKL
After getting a mechanical with high force keys (80g) and learned to type without bottoming out I find with every key press you get a bounce back, a bit of energy that sustains typing. It's like tiptoeing on a trampoline.
One other thing I like about mechs is that you get to feel the center of the keys, as they have a small depression in the middle. this helps align hands to the buttons and reduces mistyping. Flat and crowded laptop keys bad with centering.
But even with everything you say, I still don't see the point. You'd have to find specific switches and keys (which will probably be more difficult to find and more expensive) just to end up with something that roughly matches a rubber dome keyboard.
And yeah, I admit they look cooler overall. And they have a more "hacker" vibe to them which I can appreciate. But again I still can't think why I'd spend all that extra money/effort on something that struggles to match a normal keyboard for typing.
And yeah, when I'm coding I hardly type, I spend most of the time thinking. But I still do a lot of typing in general. Writing online comments, group IM chats, searching stuff on the internet, typing commands into a terminal. And whenever I've tried any of that on a mechanical keyboard, it just feels like my typing speed is unnecessarily slowed down. I get irritated by the latency in the same way I get irritated waiting for a website to load all it's useless extra js scripts that will have no effect on the bit of text I want to read.
I can't say. I came to mechanical keyboards to get away from the crappy Apple laptop keyboards, so would never occur to me to use key caps like that.
- You'd have to find specific switches and keys (which will probably be more difficult to find and more expensive)
Have to? Or get to? Sourcing parts for your dream keyboard can be fun. At least as fun as any other hobby. At the end of the day, if you like the keyboard you're using, you're doing it right.
The one thing I will say, is that my fingers probably touch my keyboard more than any other item in my house. I'm a developer and I might spend hours straight at the computer. When you consider that, the $150 I spent on my keyboard or the $99 I spent on my trackball don't seem like so much money.
The K3 was about as close to a replacement for the Magic Keyboard that I have found, though. It's a good keyboard and if I wasn't so used to and familiar with the Magic Keyboard, I probably would have loved it. I just think the Magic Keyboard is better for my preferences.
I'm actually typing this on a Keychron K2 version 1 with Gateron brown switches, and it took a few weeks of trial and error as well as a wrist pad to be able to type anywhere near the comfort and speed of what had worked for me for years (but seemed like a recipe for disaster): hunched over my laptop's built-in keyboard and display at a standing desk, no external monitor or keyboard needed or desired.
Infuriatingly, the Keychron series' spacebar is noticeably longer than on Apple keyboards. The Keychron spacebar partly overlaps X and comma, whereas Apple keyboards for as far back as I can recall are exactly aligned with the outer edges of C and M. I also miss the Fn at far lower-left of Mac keyboards.
This was part of my "wasn't a fan of the layout" comment. The alignment of the X and Comma with the Command key, which is a key your thumb reaches to a thousand times a day, is so much more comfortable than any other keyboard I've found. And it really created some strain for me on the K3. I also wasn't a fan of the right shift being shorter to make room for the full size arrow keys (I'd rather have a tenkeyless or, preferably, the half-height keys on Apple keyboards) or of the function key on the right.
Really, I just wanted the Apple Magic Keyboard, the 60%/65% one, with a more tactile feel to it and preferably in black. I've looked at dozens of keyboards over the last 8 months and the K3 was the closest I found. So I'm just going to stick with the Magic Keyboard.
Still getting used to it over the Magic Keyboard though.
It’s an accessible hobby, requiring less time, skills and resources than drone racing or woodworking...
So you don’t “have to” spend money if it does not scratch an itch nor bring any satisfaction.
Fashion aside I love those small grid programmable keyboards. I don’t care too much about style, though my wife loves the plank ez “discokeyboard” as she says.
Historical reasons, I believe. Computer keyboards started out as typewriter keyboards modified to work with mainframes, and the typing experience was something that keyboard designers put some effort into recreating when designing things like the DisplayWriter or model f keyboards.
Personally, I hate low profile keys, but that's a matter of taste. It probably has to do with the fact that I learned to type on an IBM selectric II; still the best typing experience I've ever had, by far.
Yes.
Or at least, "mechanical keyboards" is broad enough that it also includes ortholinear or column-staggered designs, as well as split keyboards. (i.e. I mean a more narrow "some mechanical keyboards are much better than non-mechanical" rather than arguing "mechanical keyboards are always better than non-mechanical").
Typical keyboards have staggered-rows, and are asymmetrical. (The distance from left-ctrl to index finger is different from right-ctrl to index finger). The biggest downside of this design is it encourages heavy usage of the pinky finger, as well as stretching fingers, and moving the hand from home row. Compare the number of keys relegated to the pinky finger vs the much stronger thumb.
The customizability of these keyboards affords further techniques to reduce hand movement and pinky usage.
I'm happy to take the trade-off of a slightly longer travel time for the benefit of reduced usage of the pinky finger, reduced hand movement.
These benefits are orthogonal to the switches being mechanical. Maybe it's easier to come up with these designs by making use of mechanical switches. But almost all the "ortholinear or column-staggered, split" keyboards I'm aware of are mechanical.
Yeah you raise some good points, but as you mentioned here it doesn't really have anything to do with the types of switches. It's just that most of these non-standard keyboards happen to be mechanical.
In my comment I am mainly talking about the pros/cons of switching to mechanical switches.
The cost of mechanical keyboard is far lower in low quantities.
I feel to say about "mechanical keyboard vs standard keyboard", these niche ergonomic keyboards should be considered.
I only recently discovered these weird keyboards. So I figure that's as good an excuse as any to extol these benefits. (And complain about how weird a standard keyboard is!).
Capital required to come up with a keyboard design is a much more minor factor.
My perfect keyboard would have an ErgoDox layout, QMX driver, scissor switches w. chiclet keys, and individually-addressable LEDS.
I can only get three of these four things, and I can live with that.
Are they are expensive? I paid less for mine than an equivalent apple keyboard, for example.
I like the aesthetic, personally.
The typing on them is, for me, both faster and more accurate. Well beyond that and of far more importance for someone who uses their hands to make money, I find the long travel and mechanical resistance is much, much more comfortable and less strain inducing.
I'm not sure I understand this. How does a rubber dome keyboard not do this?
> The key travel distance should be about the same as a membrane keyboard
I must disagree. I've tested them side by side, and all the mechanical keyboards activate at at least twice the distance. (I've tried like 5 different ones, so not exhaustive, but still)
> activation happens at the midpoint, not the terminal point
I do know this, but it also irritates me. Why not just stop at the activation point? That should give you better feedback than trying to find the activation point somewhere in the middle.
- Yes, but most (I'm having a bad experience with a malfunctioning 5-year-old Kinesis, but that's way too complicated a keyboard with too much electronics, programmability, etc) are simple and hardy. I've lugged a Happy Hacking inside a backpack for many many years and it's just great. It's lasted me three laptops by now.
- Judgement call, yeah.
- You don't have to press keys to the bottom. Keys that go all the way down take some getting used to, since they have an "implicit" point where they'll register, but overall travel time doesn't have to be much larger than in a thin keyboard. What makes it ergonomic is precisely that there's a lot of yielding to this point where keys will register, so your fingers aren't hitting the metal all the time.
I started using mechanical keyboards because I was trying to get into the classical guitar and had long fingernails on one hand. Except for the Kinesis, which does assume a whole postural ergonomics setting and desk space to place it, smaller keyboards like the Happy Hacking are a great add-on to a travelling laptop setup. Besides, since they're usually also USB hubs, you can switch your wireless mouse between laptops together with your keyboard.
The only thing I wish my Happy Hacking had is a wireless interface like the ubiquitous Microsoft mouses with the little dongle. But I'm not in a phase of my life when I'm spending a lot of money on new stuff.
You feel when the key was pressed . All new keyboards that you find in stores are horrible. Pressing on their keys is like pressing on a mat. Why do i always have to look on the screen to see if the press was registered ?
I grew up on the Apple Extended II keyboard and just recently bought myself a new keyboard with Alps switches. It feels like what I grew up with, it feels right to me.
Other than that though, I have tried co-workers $200 keyboards and see zero difference. I guess the short keyboards are kind of cool to have your hands truly centered when using a mouse.
I use them together with a Kyria, best keyboard I've ever had.
One of the cool things about mechanical switches is they can be built in such a way to have different characteristics. Much like how a car's suspension can be tuned to be soft or hard and with high ground clearance or low down you can build switches to be loud of quiet, clicky or soft, long or short travel.
As for why they are appealing, many people like tactile interfaces with positive feedback. In a world where everything is a touch sensitive slab of glass its nice to interface with something mechanical and responsive instead of a lifeless slate. Its the dexterous equivalent to ASMR. Its why people like manual transmissions, bolt action rifles, physical switches and knobs.
In an age where everyone and their mom (literally) are doing sponsored product reviews on youtube, and also as a lifelong hardware nerd, this parody really appeals to my inner soul.
I'd like to add actuation force to this list. It's one of the most important characteristics.
When I was able to write in coffee shops and the like, I didn't want to bother other patrons with a noisy keyboard, so I whipped up my own writing app that simulates loud keys via headphones, and it works almost as well as the real thing.
My level of enthusiast is "I built my own." And not at all, everyone has their preferences.
I went with one of the loudest switches you can get (Kailh Box Jade) because the loudness of a switch is strongly correlated with the tactility of a switch. Tactility is the physical "bump" that typically aligned with the actuation point (and sound) of the switch. The theory is that bottoming out a switch can contribute to repetitive strain injury, and the tactile bump allows you acquire the muscle memory to stop before the bottom. Also, typing on the keyboard feels like cracking glass :).
There are really neat force diagrams that show the tactile bump[1].
Gamers and office workers tend to prefer linear switches, which don't have a tactile bump and are actuated by bottoming them out. The sound also arises due to bottoming them out.
> They are loud
You can alleviate 70% of this problem by choosing linear switches (typically red colored) and installing o-rings (about 30min of work). Enthusiasts go the extra mile and lubricate the switches and install a film in the switch that tightens up tolerances (this takes hours). Once you go the full mile, you end up with something like this[2].
You can't buy a keyboard with any of that done, unless you get someone to build it for you.
> The keys are massive and ugly
You can switch them out, keycaps come in all shapes and sizes, but that is definitely down to preference.
> They are expensive
Oh yes.
> Massive travel time (So slow to type on)
You do get low-profile switches, but that that gets expensive. The Logitech G915 starts at $229. Travel distance is only correlated to typing speed if you aren't used to larger travel distances. From what I've seen, the typing speed ceiling on mechanical keyboards is typically higher. In addition most people type incorrectly (myself included) and this contributes far more to typing speed than the mechanism of the keyboard.
--
Ultimately, keep doing what you are doing. If you like the extreme low travel of the Magic Keyboard, then that's the perfect keyboard for you. That being said, if you haven't given an appropriate mechanical keyboard a chance then you aren't making a decision with all the possible data.
[1]: https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/417.embed [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2nLxvWvrJM
That really depends. This one seems pretty quiet: https://youtu.be/rGM8Y6yal-8?t=337, but buckling spring keyboards are obnoxiously loud (IIRC from my childhood).
> - The keys are massive and ugly
That's only true if your preference is for laptop-style keyboards.
> - Massive travel time (So slow to type on)
IIRC, one of the main benefits of mechanical key-switches is that you don't have to bottom them out to activate them. On my keyboard, there's at least 50% more travel after the switch is activated, and the travel-to-activation doesn't seem massively different than a laptop keyboard.
Also, non-mechanical desktop-style keyboards require the most travel time of anything.
> Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard.
Honestly, I think one of the better arguments for mechanical keyboards is that most non-mechanical keyboards were designed with cost reduction as the top priority (or in the case of Apple, thinness for its own sake). I guess if you're used to that, it's fine, but gunning for cheap usually leads to quality compromises in other areas.
The most annoying things regarding mechanical keyboards is that the culture around them has weird obsessions (like stripping things down to the fewest possible keys and using stylish custom keycaps). For instance, when I was searching for a quiet keyboard video, I found this one (https://youtu.be/O3-9ttpaU0E?t=57), where they guy misses the point and thinks the cool thing about Symbolics keyboards was the keycap style, when it's really the seven modifier keys.
But, all I can say is "worse typing" is, well, super subjective. I type at least as well on mechanical keyboards, and I find my fingers don't get as tired when I'm using them. For what it's worth, I'm in my 50s, have been using mechanical keyboards for as much of the nearly 40 years I've been dorking with computers, and I've had very few RSI-related problems. I think I've been pretty good about ergonomics across the board, so I'm not going to ascribe that solely to keyswitches -- but I think they've definitely helped.
I also quite like the clacketty sound they make but I totally get why some people would find that off putting. For me it’s as soothing as the sound of gentle rain on an autumn evening. Maybe I’m weird there but I’d wager I’m not unique.
Mechanical keyboards don’t need to be expensive either. I will grant you some people fetishise over high end keyboards but you can pick up new mechanical keyboards for the fraction of the price of those limit run models if you’re happy for something a little more mass produced (and, frankly, they work just as well).
Keyboard typing speed is always going to be dependent on what you’re used it. I bet some typists on a 1970s typewriter could run circles around the average developer on a chiclet keyboard.
Ultimately the choice of keyboard really boils down to personal preference.
Haven't had that particular issue since, only RSI was the kinds I'd have had regardless of if I used normal keyboards or not.
[0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_lis...
When I spilled a drink on it and gummed up a switch, I popped off the keycaps, took out a few screws, pulled out the board, desoldered the switch and soldered in a replacement switch. Good as new.
My favorite feature? The cord connects to the body with USB Type-C so even the cord is easily replaceable. The raised keycap design is nice too since I can just blow compressed air under all the keycaps to clean it and there's no raised edge around the faceplate to catch it.
1. You have to try out a few to find one you like and most of them are only available online. 2. Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts drown out casual mechanical keyboard users. Most discussions you can find focus on overly advanced topics and most manufacturers cater to the enthusiast crowd. I don't think most casual users care aren't that nitpicky about performance or aesthetic, but the customization options appeal to the enthusiast crowd I suppose.
In my experience, I like low-profile mechanical keyboards with blue or brown switches. I was happily using a keyboard I found on Amazon for $40 that's now unavailable. I ordered two more expensive ones later on and hated them.
I recently got a Keychron K3 low-profile keyboard with optical switches and enjoy it a lot. It might be worth giving that one a shot when it's available again.
I myself am close to buying whatever I can that has much lower travel height and switch weight (my current keyboard is lovely but can make my hands cramp after a couple hours if it's cold or after repetitive use). I'm convinced the only real metric that is worth chasing in expensive keyboards is build quality, followed by whether you like how the switches feel and the form factor.
I tried and tried to love mechanical keyboards, but when I was gaming I settled on the Apple USB keyboard because I could button mash all day without any distress.
I now have a little cache of ones I bought from residual stock after they were discontinued. The wireless ones are not the same (for one you can't plug usb devices into it, like the Logitech receiver)
Travel Distance, distance a key needs to travel to be actuated, is sometimes within 2mm (eg. cherry mx browns). If you learn to use just enough force to type, you glide over keys. No need to bottom out.
If I ever need to type something on a standard keyboard, I feel like moving stones.
I've bolt modded the Lexmark for the day my grandfather's finally needs to be done. But all three have well withstood the test of time: my grandfather's still has most all of its rivets 33 years later. It was his only keyboard at home AFAIK; I've been using it for the last 5 years.
> The Model M has no replaceable parts.
Is categorically false. The stems, keycaps, springs, and membranes can all be replaced quite easily. Unicomp sells replacements. Many have also modded them to replace the controller with something more modern. You just need to find the right hex driver.
Just because there aren't lots of manufactuers (like with oh, say, Cherry-compatible switches or QMK boards) doesn't mean they aren't repairable or moddable.
Don't disagree with most of the rest of your points but... n=3 (+7?) data points, I've never heard of a barrel breaking under normal usage. And cleaning drinks is optional once it is dried :-) The '87 and the '89 both had coffee stains and functioned just fine. I mostly cleaned the barrel plate and moved on with usage. If I bolt mod either, I'll probably clean the membranes.
Fully agree that the Model F is more solid than the Model M. But the Model M feels a lot more solid to me than most anything modern.
Maybe I just got high-quality builds?
Model M is still my favorite among the three, though it is no longer as "solid" as it used to be. I've only had it and used it for 20 years, but it was in active use before I got it. Not bad for 37 years of typing.
I haven't been impressed with the few other types of mechanical keyboards I've used (which I admit is not many). The key presses just don't feel as authoritative as the model m and the model m does feel like a tank.
The only knock I can give the model m is the lack of modifier keys and remapping. I use a soarers converter to remedy these problems.
That said, would I buy a unicomp repop, or a model m at current prices? No, probably not.
[0]: https://www.crackedthecode.co/how-to-supercharge-your-ibm-mo...
Not seeing the longevity issues there really, and the springs have a lovely feel.
(The F77 from your link looks great, but that pricetag!)
> The Model M has no replaceable parts.
Unicomp sells a lot of replacement parts and a lot of the most common repairs can be easily done by the user. Besides that, they are really durable: I know people who use Model M's older than them.
And few keyboards will resist coffee spills.
One thing I wish it could do is backlit keys. Some people mod them, but I've never seen this done.
> Because it is much cheaper to make.
That's really true. Model F keyboards were expensive, beam-spring ones were even more and the kind of mechanical beasts you find inside IBM Selectric-based terminals and the 2260 terminals would be considered art installations more than office appliances if made today. You can get a new Model M today for less than many good mechanical keyboards with good switches and nice keycaps will cost you. And I assure you, no mechanical keyboard sounds like a Model M (or F, or beam spring, if you can pay for one).
I have a couple keyboards on my desk. The M sits beside a small "gaming" (which means "ridiculous RGB effects") mechanical one and a couple Apple ones (one wireless, one wired) all connected to different computers, which are used for different things (the Sun Type 7 is stashed away, for now, but, as cool-looking as it is, it doesn't feel that great). The gaming one will, eventually, get new sculpted/spherical keycaps because this is one area where these keyboards really shine - they are ridiculously customizable.
Sure, they _could_ be built more solidly but I'm going to take a wild guess that 25 years is well beyond the lifetime a typical keyboard would be engineered for so it's probably still/already overbuilt.
You can also order either of two HHKB-style layouts, where the backquote key is replaced by Esc (among other changes).
I guess what I'm saying is that there are ways in which Model Ms manufactured today are more "reproduction antique" than new keyboards.
All of that said, even the 2010s Model Ms are the sturdiest keyboards I own. Significantly better built than some Cherry switch keyboards at a similar price point (but not manufactured by Cherry). While it's frustrating that you can't more readily disassemble to the board for cleaning, this is basically the norm on "commercial" or "industrial" keyboards, which is more the space the Model M occupies than what we think of as "mechanical keyboards" today. For example, Cherry and PrehKeyTec keyboards at a $400+ price point have the exact same limitations. They're mostly sold to integrators as part of a 5-figure cost system and they're viewed as single units for replacement part purposes.
On the upside, the barrel plate design makes the Model M intrinsically easier to clean of grit and cat hair than many modern mechanical designs, which take much more careful cleaning around the exposed switches.
I played with one recently, and I found the quality nice. Very much on par with my own original almost new-un-box model M.
After like 2015 or so, when firms like Ducky and Filco began to bring appealing, consumer-focused MX-switch boards to market, the M becomes just one choice among many.
There's also the more subjective angle: people like specific key feels. I like the Model M sound and feel product, probably better even than Model F (too tangy). People will put up with a lot of rubbish for a better feel.
Since I have three IBM keyboards, I think I'm covered until retirement. They will outlast me and I'll put them in my will ;)
So know this about mechanical keyboards in general - choose wisely, because you'll be stuck with it.
First, you won't ever go back to rubber dome like everyone always says, but second, the damn things don't seem to wear out.
I'm still using the original Razer Blackwidow that I bought in first year uni - 2010. I thought I'd managed to kill it with beer in the first few years, but a mate insisted on having a look at it. He resoldered a corroded trace and it's been a champ ever since.
Who knows when, or if, it will ever die. I've been through three mice in the same period.
Of course, I did open it up at some point and that's not pretty. The steel plate where the keys are mounted on was actually a bit rusty; I think it was just painted and I may have scraped it while cleaning at some point, or something?
I did replace the keycaps with PBTs in 2015, as the stock ABS caps were fairly worn, but other than that no maintenance really.
Edit: the only bummer is that it has one of those dumb Windows keys. And I do wish I could get this exact keyboard in an ergonomic layout.
A good, super flat chiclet style keyboard are by far the best imho.
I really don't get the usual "get one mechanical keyboard and it'll serve you for life". This thing will surely last for at least another 5 years. It's very comfortable, I can type for hours and the wrists don't hurt. So what does it come to, about $1 per year of use?
What mechanical keyboard can beat that? (I am not planing on living for 300+ years, mind you.)
Then I bought a decent mechanical keyboard, and it's been a beast. No signs of aging and it's been 4 years. Dramatic improvement.
His comparison wasn't between mechanical keyboards. It was from a cheap keyboard to a mechanical.
Good keyboards are not about how long they last. They are about how your primary interface to the computer feels. How long they last is part of value, you might like something really expensive and choose to use something you like less because you don't find the other worse the cost.
Also, for some people comfort beats all other factors, including durability. Mechanical or not, since I switched to Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 at work, I really don't care what is under the keycaps. Improvement in comfort is so massive for me, that even if keyboard would completely break every 2 years, I would just happily buy another one.
In my opinion they're like record players. The appeal is the retro factor. Chiclet keyboards are better in every measurable way and I'm using one of those now, some $25 keyboard from Dell. I can type faster on this one, more accurately, it gets dirty much slower, and it's significantly smaller.
Of course there's nothing wrong with using something because it's cool.
They all are handily beat by an old MSI gaming laptop with a SteelSeries chiclet keyboard. The keys on that had the perfect balance of resistance, feedback, bounciness, travel distance, and tactile feeling. That laptop is now a server in a closet and I always look forward to the rare occasion where I have to physically use it.
Most normal cheap chiclets are pretty bad though IMO. Older Apple ones are also pretty good.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any normal keyboards like that one - the SteelSeries keyboards you can buy all have taller keys with weird switches. And you can't reprogram them or get them in the layout you want. So I end up still using a mech with a weird form factor (designing a PCB for my next/final kb right now).
Mechanical keyboards are better in every measurable way, particularly typing accuracy and speed.
Of course there's nothing wrong with being contrarian because it's cool.
[1] https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/ibm-greenock-dec-2008....
I really need to pop all the key caps off and clean them as some of them are pretty grungy.
I wanted to buy a new mechanical keyboard with a home office budget that my employer gave us, and a friend recommended I check out WASD Keyboards. (Up front: I have zero relationship with them except as a customer.) Wanna talk about analysis paralysis? The following killed a week of evenings for me:
- Go to https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/products/mechanical-keyboards/...
- Debate long and hard about the form factor. Do I need the 10-key? Yes! No? Huh, I don't really use it. But what if! Settle on 87 keys.
- Next screen: eh, black case it is.
- Next screen: wait, I can choose the color of every individual key?
- Next screen: wait, I can choose the key caps separately for the symbol, modifier, and OS keys, with a range of fonts and glyphs to choose from? Or I can upload a PDF for custom screen printing?
The end result was this: https://honeypot.net/images/wasd_keyboard.jpeg
- Light grey keys (with a retro font) for letters
- Dark grey keys for punctuation
- Blue keys for numbers and actions
- Red keys for things that control the system
- Pink keys for the function keys
- Green keys for modifiers (with Amiga keycaps for the OS keys, because this is proper)
- And a yellow key with a skull and crossbones that I've mapped to a macro that instantly locks my computer, because I work with the security team and this seemed appropriate.
You might hate my design. That's OK, really! See if you can make one you like more.
(There. And with that, I just set the US tech economy back a few hours.)
Oh wow, I do hate it. Thank you for sharing.
I like the idea of unmarked letter keys; but I'd probably keep markings on the others, opposite of what you did, but I'm also not going to pay extra to get unlabeled keys if it's extra.
[1] Like what usually comes when you buy a pre-built desktop.
From this store, all of the customization is included. It's the same cost whether you buy all beige keys with the default caps, or if you make every key an alternating color and upload an image for custom prints. So then it became a question of "if I can do anything I want with this... what is it I actually want?" I figured I'd go for something that looks at home in a cyberpunk novel.
Edit: BTW, your earlier "oh wow, I do hate it" reply made me laugh. Thank you.
After using MS Natural keyboard with a front lift, which allows for straight wrist position you just can't turn back to the bad lift angle of common keyboards.
So I did a little bit of reading to check my assumptions and found they were indeed wrong. I found a definition I like much better for its internal consistency, which differentiates between mechanical and capacitive[1]. What makes a mechanical switch mechanical is something physically moves to complete a circuit. And a capacitive mechanism changes the distance between two plates, causing a change in capacitance at that point in the keyboard matrix and thus the distribution of current throughout.
And with those internally-consistent definitions that don't make my brain itch, it is correct to state or imply that the buckling spring or Topre design is not mechanical, because those are capacitive designs
It does bug me some that "mechanical" has become a synonym for "doesn't suck to type on", but I shouldn't complain too loudly. That options other than than the cheapest-possible rubber-dome are now readily available is a good thing.
The model m was cheap because I literally pulled it out of the dumpster.
The endura pro was a complete waste of A LOT of money considering double shipping (usa to usa and usa to europe since they would not ship to europe, and that implies a re-shipping handling fee) and import duties on top of that.
The keyboard is loud but doesn't add anything really to my typing. And the trackpoint works at different speed if you go right vs left, and that drives me crazy (regular in a direction, super slow in the other).
Really, don't waste your money on an unicomp keyboard.
So after having played with a bit of keyboard, my favourites are the ibm/lenovo sk-8845 and a plain and simple dell usb keyboard (https://www.amazon.com/KB522-Dell-Business-Multimedia-Compat...).
That dell keyboard is very good, way better than any mechanical keyboard. So good that I stole one from my previous employer before leaving.
Mechanical keyboard is just a meme in my opinion, and one of the dumb ones.
Believe me, I've wasted enough money on keyboards to tell.
I have one made in 1986.
> The endura pro was a complete waste of A LOT of money considering double shipping (usa to usa and usa to europe since they would not ship to europe, and that implies a re-shipping handling fee) and import duties on top of that.
That's so strange, they delivered directly to Europe for me.
I have an older unicomp and a newer unicomp since the retooling last year.
> The keyboard is loud but doesn't add anything really to my typing.
Compared to my previous mechanical gaming keyboard which used linear switches and other membrane keyboards, I don't typo really at all on any of these keyboards. I think the tactile response is what helps with that for me.
> Really, don't waste your money on an unicomp keyboard.
I think the new model m (from last year) is fine - it doesn't have some of the flex and other things that the older Unicomp keyboads had. I still don't really understand the double charge you got when I didn't have it.
> Mechanical keyboard is just a meme in my opinion, and one of the dumb ones.
I don't really consider the Model M a mechanical keyboard, it's a membrane keyboard to me and the best membrane keyboard I've ever used.
they did not for me. I had my purchase cancelled, then I had half-an-argument with a support agent, then I had to buy again and set shipping to an US address (actually a re-shipping company)
edit: they cancelled my order specifically and explicitly because I wanted it delivered to europe. and I had paid the price and shipping their website told me to.
> Compared to my previous mechanical gaming keyboard which used linear switches and other membrane keyboards, I don't typo really at all on any of these keyboards. I think the tactile response is what helps with that for me.
I have a farily low error rate with most of my keyboards, as long as I can get some time for getting acquainted (let's say, 30min). the fact that a keyboard s mechanical (or spring-based, as in the case of the model m/ unicomp) doesn't really adds anything, besides noise.
How does the newer unicomp compare to the Model M's? I have three Model M's (work, home, and spare). I bought a Unicomp around 2010 because it has USB but had to give up on it because it required too much pressure and gave me mild CTS, something I've never experienced with the Model M's.
To compare to my original M.
Pros:
- it has all the windows keys, menu keys etc.
- It really is the best Unicomp keyboard I've ever had and I can't really tell much of a difference between this any my original M. Not sure if my original Model M is showing its' age, but it really doesn't feel worse.
Neutral:
- It's nowhere as heavy
- The sound is different (not better or worse for me).
- key pressure is close to the same.
- I can't tell the difference between the lettering on the keys (used to be an issue with Unicomp keyboards).
Cons:
- Blue LED is distracting at night, putting white tape under the LED cover fixes it perfectly (might be able to request this when ordering -- never tried).
> it required too much pressure and gave me mild CTS
I've only noticed additional pressure in Model Ms (including Unicomps) after applying grease or WD40 to make the keys more quieter (usually a bad idea). There are a bunch of second hand Unicomp keyboards out there where people have done this and made them difficult to type on.
> I bought a Unicomp around 2010 because it has USB
Surprisingly, a lot of modern motherboards still come with PS/2 support today.
They are real Model M keyboards. Unicomp got the Lexmark machinery and IP and essentially continued manufacturing them ever since. They aren't recreations.
The innards may be mostly the same, but it definitely was not a "Model M, but made more recently and with USB".
Another comment here mentions they had some mechanical improvements in the past two years or so.
The trackball in the top right corner combined with the Model M form factor was an unknown dream realized when I was using it regularly, so while your opinion is as legitimate as any I have to disagree.
They are extremely popular, almost standard-issue in most of India's government offices.
But other than that I didn't like it very much, it felt and looked very cheaply made and became completely unreliable and died about 2y later.
For me the sound was a big part of the satisfying typing experience but I can get something similar ("good enough") with more modern switches so I'm pretty happy with my keyboard from WASD Keyboards.
This is a strange statement. My Space65 is also a typing keyboard and I do care about ghosting.
That vs gaming keyboards comparison is just out of place.
I was under the impression that most games prized compatibility with normal membrane keyboards, and so chose keys that don't alias.
For example shift, ctrl and alt keys are less prone to aliasing as keyboard designers know you'll be pressing them and other keys at the same time.
Am I the only person who has grown to love the butterfly keyboard? It take sooo much stress of my of joints to type since the travel is so shallow. I also type considerably faster with the shallower/lower travel required.
I know folks had issues with reliability with he design but I guess I'm on the of the lucky few who hasn't had issues.
The keys have more travel than their laptop equivalents (and much more than the Magic Keyboard), but not enough to actually slow down typing. Just the right amount of spring.
Recently I switched to using ergo/ split keyboards though and would have trouble going back.
Unfortunately, I've realized that I really want a tenkeyless. The Unicomp is too large and the Pok3r too small. Does anybody know an affordable mechanical tenkeyless where Capslock and Ctrl is or can be switched in the hardware?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/36n5cl...
You can choose the switch type you want to run with it as well, I’ve been running Cherry MX Blues, I think Black, Brown, and Red are also offered.
It’s a Windows keyboard so I swapped some keycaps and did some OS rebinding for Mac but I’ve loved it. I don’t know if they offer a Mac version yet or not.
It wasn’t cheap, but it wasn’t as expensive as my Das Keyboard I was moving from- which I had to replace after two years as it was fritzing out and the USB hub in it stopped working.
Here’s a link to a review I just found of it as it gives more detail. The reviewed version isn’t TKL though.
https://www.samkear.com/hardware/filco-majestouch-2-ninja-me...
That was until I recently discovered the Gazzew Boba U4 tactile switches. These things feel amazing and are quieter than my crappy old non-mechanical keyboards!
This keyboard has been life changing. Total cost somewhere south of $200. I highly recommend looking into building one if you spend more than an hour per day on a keyboard.
Here's a video comparing the u4s to Cherry MX Browns: https://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comments/lmdy4s/mechanica...
This made me chuckle. I know "mechanical keyboards" is how we name these things, but the name is hilariously badly chosen. Akin to "chemical free" label.
Last year, I switched to keychron k1, A low profile mech keyboard. The lighting effects are absolutely stunning, it really is the most beautiful keyboard I have typed on. However, the bluetooth and typing experience it a little off. The keys are jagged on the corners and I seem to catch the corners. And bluetooth intermittently drops connection to my macbook, making it useless.
It is like a topre for poor people.
If you find an old Packard bell with a 1.25 unit wide escape key it is certainly a BTC board. That is how I found mine. 25sek (about 3 bucks) without an AT converter.
Just look for retro keyboards. The 1.25 unit escape key is the first thing to spot. Then make sure it is the dome-with-slider one and not a foam-and-foil (which are certainly degraded beyond use by now).
Personally I think the future of tactile keyboards is rubber domes and either light-based sensing or EC style (like topre). No friction, yet great tactility instead of the almost-linear switches like cherry MX brown.
https://www.logitech.com/en-ca/product/k840-mechanical-corde...
Then again, I also loved and have used extensively the Apple chiclet keyboard before the new magic version... ~2015 model?
So my opinion might be as good as heresy around here.
And what about the weirdly designed numlock/caps area in the top right hand side on most of these keyboards? Take e.g. the Classic 101/PS2 [1], I mean, does all that iconography really need to be that prominent? It's like some programmer was playing around with clip art. Less is more, not?
I really wouldn't mind trying out one of these keyboards but the ugly design of it makes me pass.
I mean, you get only three on the left side, plus a giant spacebar that you will only ever tap with your right thumb in a single spot. That's good for Tim Cook, I guess, but any self-respecting computer geek will want to have more modifiers. My Ultimate Hacking Keyboard has a small spacebar on the right half, while the left has: Control, Fn, Alt/Option, Cmd/Super, Mod, and a special "Mouse" (emulation) key below the other keys, on the keyboard frame.
Some of the older keyboards are even worse in that they only have TWO modifiers on the left, which is a complete showstopper.
Just don’t understand the current hype.
If you use these please know bringing them to an office will make most dislike you due to the noise they make
When I was a kid my dad would take me to the office where I'd play on actual IBM PCs (we had a clone at home) and I loved the mechanical keyboards, although I didn't dislike the non-mechanical one at home.
As I got older I pined for a mechanical keyboard. Then I discovered that other people missed them too. Then they started making them again.
I've tried them a number of times. They are a novelty that satisfies nostalgia for a few minutes.
Then I try to do some actual work on one and realize that they are annoying and loud, and the keys require way too much force and travel.
I'll take any generic, modern, low-profile, laptop-style keyboard. They're just so much easier to type on.
My keyboard has "silent" switches (tiny rubber bits so bits of plastic don't hit together), and is comparable to Apple keyboards.
(The first time I took one to the office, I checked with my neighbours. Between about 6 people, there was no consensus on which of my keyboard, an Apple one, or an old Microsoft one was loudest/most annoying.)
There’s also Topre boards like the HHKB which are similar in silence to rubberdomes while offering a much more consistent keyfeel.
Noise in mechanical keyboards is a choice, not an immutable fact.
Anyone have a recommendation for a low-profile, relatively quiet mechanical keyboard that will not feel disruptive to my Mac & Surface keyboard habits? Something akin to those, but mechanical, would be nice.
EDIT: OK, I'll edit my request for a recommendation: best keyboard of any kind if you're spending your day on Macbook and Surface keyboards.
I haven't tried them yet myself, since I prefer a narrower layout. I really love my Drop ALT but it's not low profile.
Companies like HAVIT[4] and Coolermaster[5] have made them too, but I haven't heard much about their stuff.
[1]: https://www.keychron.com/
[2]: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k1-wireless-mecha...
[3]: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k3-wireless-mecha...
[4]: https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Keyboard-Extra-Thin-Rollov...
This "low profile blue switch" uses a click bar, so the click you hear does not correspond to the actuation point exactly---which I am a bit bummed about---but I hear the majority of low profile clicky switches currently have the same implementation/issue.
I think both chiclet and mechanical keyboards give me tactile feedback I'm comfortable with.
Ships with a USB-A cord... ?
Seriously? Is a simple USB-C cable that much more expensive than USB-A? Even if my MacBook shipped with USB-A or I had a mini or an iMac, I’d still prefer USB-C.
I’ve been testing split keyboards lately and I think they’ll provide some relief to some neck and shoulder pain I get from hunching when I type, but I don’t really like how gigantic the keyboards all are, and to be honest I prefer the “chiclet” keys over the big mechanical keys (heresy, I know).
Any suggestions?
For keycaps, Signature Plastics is where I buy blanks. DSA profile will be your best bet, given how strange split board layouts can be.
Keycaps can be hard, chocs in particular don't have a lot of good caps. MBKs are the best feeling ones (in my opinion). They just announced ones with legends and they won't be available for months. There are other options with legends available as well, that are closer to traditional laptop keys.
https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards - A list of splits, not all support lower profile keycaps.
Reddit has the https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ community, who might be able to point you to more information, including a layout comparer.
logitech ergo k860 And Microsoft sculpt are pretty flat, chiclet style ergonomic keyboards.
In 2021 you can buy much, much better keyboards. I really enjoy my Leopold with PBT keycaps and Cherry silent red switches, even more than my expensive Topre Realforce
What happened?
I find them more sturdy, almost no key wiggle (as opposed to having some before), the lettering on the keys are clearer (although that I didn't notice until someone pointed it out and didn't care after, it was something people complained about), the enclosure doesn't creek if you try to flex it etc.
My only complaint is that I had to put white tape on the LED indicators to diffuse the blue LEDs because they're distractingly bright at night otherwise.
I borrowed one a year ago and geez, it was nice! I had used Cherry blues, browns, and less common Kailh Box whites [1] prior to that. I enjoyed them, but the noise reduction silent reds brought was refreshing.
And apart from switches, that board introduced me to Leopold, who I think sets the standard for mass-produced mechanical keyboards. No odd shape or cheap-looking shiny plastic (DAS!), the keycaps are top-notch, and they come with lubed stabilizers. Heck, even the cable can be routed multiple directions to your liking.
Overall, Leopold's build quality is something I've not experienced with a handful of other mass-produced mechanical keyboards I own. I'm convinced I'll need to go custom if I want something better.
This is the keyboard model I learned to type on, never found plain M that impressive.
Note that layer M2 are rubber domes, so be careful out there!
Been using an alibaba special with kailh switches and LED backlights for years now. No complaints.
The model is the latest one from Lexmark when the factory was sold, so it's less solid than earlier models, but it still feels and sounds perfect.
Those who know, know
Supposedly, the build quality since they retooled last year is even better.
I need to have a separate room for myself.
I bought a Unicomp a couple of years ago, which looked exactly like the keyboard pictured. It was quite unreliable.
Yes this is all preferences, but the ubiquity of Cherry-likes has also driven further optimization in terms of materials, keycap variety, and cost.
Model M makes an amazing sound though. I guess that's also part of the reason I still own and occasionally type on a mechanical typewriter ;)