Photographer Sues Kat Von D over Miles Davis Tattoo
petapixel.com
petapixel.com
> Remember Kind of Bloop, the chiptune tribute to Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue that I produced? I went out of my way to make sure the entire project was above board, licensing all the cover songs from Miles Davis’s publisher and giving the total profits from the Kickstarter fundraiser to the five musicians that participated.
> But there was one thing I never thought would be an issue: the cover art.
> Before the project launched, I knew exactly what I wanted for the cover — a pixel art recreation of the original album cover, the only thing that made sense for an 8-bit tribute to Kind of Blue. I tried to draw it myself, but if you’ve ever attempted pixel art, you know how demanding it is. After several failed attempts, I asked a talented friend to do it.
There are two tests the judge will look at: (1) Originality, and (2) Transformativeness. Obviously, the courts will litigate this (or it's going to be settled out of court, like in the Obama poster case[1]). Interesting edge-case nonetheless.
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/arts/design/13fairey.html
This is not correct. [1] has examples of court cases on transformative and non-transformative. Simply changing media, while copying the image wholesale, and the image alone, is not transformative.
For an interesting case, look at the famous Obama poster [2], which was made from a photo of Obama, but was clearly transformed. In the ensuing legal battle, which was settled out of court, the creator of the poster went to great lengths to destroy evidence that he created it from someone else's photo (which he later regretted when caught by the court).
So if the Obama poster is not transformative by your argument, then there is no way the Miles Davis tattoo would be.
There's plenty more cases showing media changes are not enough.
[1] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-what-transf...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Hope%22_poster
Perhaps sometimes - but written song lyrics don't lose their copyright when sung.
Standard language is copyright law around the world includes essentially "The owner of copyright has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize derivative works based upon the copyrighted work", there are various more specific details that may apply and change that, but the default scenario is that derivative works definitely require blessing from the copyright owner.
I disagree. It's a simple matter: copyright laws abridge "the freedom of speech, or of the press" and should be outlawed by the 1st amendment.
If that doesn't work for you they also violate the 4th Amendment ("The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures").
If that doesn't work for you there's the 13th amendment "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude...shall exist within the United States".
Or maybe the XIVth "nor shall any State deprive any person of...property, without due process of law". If you are prevented from doing harmless things with your property, then you are deprived of your property.
The bottom line is copyrights and patents are bad laws from first principles, and completely in conflict with the rest of our values and ideals. Sure, in the body of the text they are permitted, but so was human slavery and the right of only white men to vote. We need to fix this and #AbolishImaginaryProperty #EndCopyrights #EndPatents
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26028392
As a concept it exists to promote the progress of science and useful arts - to incentivize people to create. This is something we want in a society.
My point was that you can't read into a theoretical ramification of an interpretation of an amendment to overrule the plain meaning of the text of the constitution.
Edit: I’m a little zonked out on cold meds, but I believe if I were to go back to my legal days, the relevant canon of construction in statutory interpretation is ‘repeal by implication,’ if anyone’s curious about this idea of how we square two ideas that may be partially opposed. The basic principle is that courts will be unlikely to repeal something just because another part of the law implies it’s no longer valid. IIRC there’s some thought that subsequent laws in subsequent legislative sessions carry more weight towards a repeal, so that would be in favor of repeal in the case of the amendment. But it’s still pretty uncommon, and highly discouraged. And in this case, I think when you have a plainly written passage enshrining the right of congress to enact Copyright-esque laws, you’d need some clear language to remove the clause. The 21st is a good example, but you wouldn’t need to be that explicit.
Pretty unrelated, but for those looking to argue about IP law on a constitutional basis, look at the congressional authority to enact trademark legislation. Unlike Copyright and Patent, which is an enumerated right, federal trademark law (the Lanham Act) is all based on the commerce clause. The commerce clause just being a broad clause on interstate commerce. It’s much weaker, and fun to pay attention to since the strength of the commerce clause waxes and wanes with the Supreme Court. Anyways, I hope someone enjoyed this cold medicine fuled aside.
I very much did, thank you. I hadn't heard the term "repeal by implication" and now you've got my curiosity peaked and have a new wikipedia hole to go down.
FWIW, my argument is a loser. Never in a hundred years do I think it would win in court, and I think a new clear amendment will be necessary, but that's where I'd make my stand given the current laws. (I'm resigned to think this might not be a hypothetical b/c I can only espouse SciHub so many times before some angry bear comes after me—though luckily there are a lot braver souls out there peacefully doing a lot more than mme leaving forum comments). :)
If the 1st Amendment were intended to do so to copyright, someone would have noticed by now.
Has there been any previous case law on whether or not this is allowed?
Could an argument be made that since Disney has never defended this, then they have no right to complain now? (At least trademark is supposed to work that way - you lose it if you don’t actively enforce it).
That’s an oft repeated myth, but it’s not quite true.
From an article by the EFF:
> The circumstances under which a company could actually lose a trademark—such as abandonment and genericide—are quite limited. Genericide […] is very rare […]. Courts also set a very high bar to show abandonment (usually years of total non-use). Importantly, failure to enforce a mark against every potential infringer does not show abandonment.
[1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not...
Not tattoos, but games look at a similar situation with videos and streaming, most companies welcome the free advertising or encourage it heavily. But there are gaming companies famous for exercising a strong grip on content creation, most prominently japanese companies likes ATLUS [1].
It took less than a minute for one of the security people (dressed in an old-timey police uniform, of course) to come over and tell him to put his shirt back on, in a tone and cadence which made it sound like this wasn’t the first time the two of them had had this interaction.
Anyway what I’m saying is, as far as I know he wasn’t bound and gagged and hauled off before a Disney magistrate.
Judge Rules in Favor of 'NBA 2K' Creators in Case Brought by Tattoo Artists
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/04/06/nba-2k-ruling-tattoo-artis...
I could be wrong, but I feel like, as for the issue of the tattoo itself, that's going to end up amounting to nothing. The publicity pictures on the other hand may be more of an issue.
As far as my very ignorant opinion, likely not based on reality or laws goes...
Copyright on a photo should apply to direct copies being used in in ways photos are typically used.
Paintings, tattoos, etc. of photos should not fall under 'usage of a photo' as far as copyrights go. It's ridiculous. It doesn't matter how photorealistic somebody can paint a picture, it's still not the same picture.
It's not identical, the medium is not the same, and they're not even competing for the same...I guess...pool of money?...I dunno how to word that...but they don't tend to interfere in eachother's markets.
It just doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Being 'dinged' what could easily be more than $150k is a penalty that is almost certain to have massive repercussions on someone's life. Even if we assume complete guilt, full knowledge of the law, and willful intent to disregard it to do the job... in what world is it sane to economically trash someone's life over a mistake like this?
Imagine how much Disney will make from tattoo royalties if this gets accepted.
> Plaintiff Jeffrey Sedlik reached out to Kat Von D 'artist to artist' (through her representatives) seeking an amicable resolution of the matter prior to filing suit, but Ms. Von Drachenberg chose to ignore Mr. Sedlik’s good faith effort to avoid litigation.
[from linked Billboard article]
I mean, who made "photography" an "art" anyway that deserved to have such protections? I mean, come on, all you did was be at the right time at the right place and took a fucking picture, with a camera no less.
And, don't get me started on how badly drummers have been screwed under this "copyright law". I'm too busy sampling the "Amen Break" for the thousandth time...
If that were the case, everyone would be a great photographer. Being able to envision a shot and then also being able to execute it (prepare for it, shoot it and process it afterwards) is not as simple as "being at the right place and right time".
It's also worth mentioning the Winston's B-side of "Amen Brother" from which the "Amen Break was sampled is itself a derivative work. That track is actually based on the Impression's track "Amen" itself a traditional Gospel song[1] as well as a top 50 hit in the same year the Winston's recorded it. However the Winston's credited themselves with the songwriting. The outrage and sympathy seem to be pretty well cherry-picked when you consider all these facts. It made for good headlines for a while though.
Drum part's aren't copyrightable for the sole reason that they are not songwriting but rather are accompaniment. And they are copyrighted in the context of the master recording. Trying to imagine a world in which drum parts are copyright is an exercise in insanity. The classic Bo Diddley drum beat while one of the most recognizable beats was certainly not invented by Clifton James. Nor would he ever claim he did. It has roots in Afro-Cuban music and in fact goes all the way back to the Yoruba in Western Africa. Anyone who has ever been to Carnival or Mardi Gras knows this beat. How exactly would such copyright litigation unfold?
By the way nobody "made photography an art." Like all new mediums it was once hotly debated whether it was art or not. That debate ended a long time ago however. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who has looked at the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Diane Arbus, Robert Mapplethorpe or Ansel Adams conclude that it wasn't art.
Like paying a secretary to type up a copy of a novel for you, or paying a musician to perform songs?
As for the copy & distribution aspect of instagram, don't the copies have to be plausibly usable as stand-ins for the real thing? Are any of those pics of such quality that you can frame them and otherwise use them instead of the original?
Then again, don't you need to negotiate rights to include even small samples of someone else's song in your own? The sample nor the new song certianly can't stand in for the original.
Maybe IF the tattoo artist included pics of the original alongside her own work, then she just needs to do whatever petapixel did to include their copy in this article? Did they have to do anything much?
I think both the tattoos and the pictures of the tattoos are safe but any copies of the original on instagram etc is probably a much less cut and dried question.
But it doesn't sound like tbis can possibly be a new problem that hasn't been hashed out 100 times in 100 essentially equivalent cases by now since decades ago, maybe even literally involving tattoo artists.
Famously The Hangover Part II also Take Two - https://screenrant.com/wwe-randy-orton-tattoo-artist-sues-ta...
I hope he would make an exception in the case of a tattoo. I can't imagine going through life with a copyright notice or a © symbol tattooed on my body.
All sarcasm aside, to take it to a logical and pedantic extreme, even while I wouldn't want someone to change their body based on my opinion, you probably wouldn't want someone to tattoo themselves with black face or a swastika, so I don't entirely agree.
That being said, I wouldn't personally care. Not my life to live and I don't have time to police the actions of others. Plus, I'm sure they'll face their own set of issues related to such imagery that go far beyond anything I could do about it.
I personally don't think anything is necessarily representative of people with tattoos, never mentioned any such generalization, and find your comment defensive as though I was attacking you personally. If you have a tattoo of the sort, why wouldn't you just add a contrary point of view?
I suspect exponential growing registration fees is something that is more likely to get done, because people like Disney will pay for valuable asset protection but every random work from 20+ years ago is fine.
So like $0 copyright for 20 years, then $1,000 for 5 year extension, $10,000 for next 5 year extension, $100,000 for next 5 year extension, $1,000,000 for next 5 years etc.
In the best case the talented tatoo lady maybe forced to pay some of the fees she collected for tatoo work.
His abmulance chasers may scream "damages" for as long as they want but this is no win for him and them.
Good advertisement for the lady, well deserved, great work.
PS: I used to work as a professional photographer and I had artist asking me to buy exclusive license to paint a picture off my photo of a famous horse jumper in action. I sold it to her for $20. Come on! Everyone is happy.
I imagine that photographer would like to earn money for the photo he took. Probably such photographer only has couple of those shot throughout lifetime and it’s quite obvious he’s trying to make a living out of it. One could criticize greediness and time, but should it be 1$ and 1 day instead?
On the other hand we have tattoo artist that reproduced 1:1 photo to skin. It probably was hard and required a lot of skill and experience. My guess is that artist should have the source material. Should they create all of it? If not should they have permission of the source material?
And there is third side - using sourced work as a marketing material. Would drawing straight rectangle both on client’s arm and showing it on photo of “work in progress” had the same marketing effect as using famous photo? Instagram brings money too and this specific piece of work was used to boost it.
I understand the need and also myself I would like art to be free, but in the end artist (such as photographer or tattoo artist) has to eat, I’m not really sure how one could settle this without a fight though.
https://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-lette...
Pure speculation: Perhaps, in this particular case he was provoked by Kat Von D (short for Drachenberg), whose Wikipedia-quote includes a quote from a jewish magazine calling her an "anti-jew":
Ethically, I'm inclined to agree that copyright currently lasts too long, though I'm not sure I'd call 31 years, with the author of the copyrighted work still being alive too long.
Where do you draw the lines? Is it infringement if you draw a picture while looking at another picture? What if you do it from memory?
If the tattoo was executed poorly, the artist might never think to sue, but they would be exactly as justified to sue as in this case.
The purpose of patents is to promote (edit: scientific research).
Giving someone money for the book they wrote for the rest of their life plus some time is all about money.
(In theory. The practice, as with most things, gets complicated.)
The compromise has diminishing returns for providing protections and affordances on longer time scales, and 30 years is really pushing it.
Also I hope he's doing fine with his client list https://sedlik.com/getinfo.htm
It is pretty clearly about promoting those things via economic incentives, by giving inventors and authors a limited monopoly.
I wonder if the photographer would sue if the drawing/tatoo wasn’t as good and was more crude?
For visual art there's no centralized structure like this, so you're at the whim of the original artist or counting on fair use.
Which PP reproduces and distributes from the electronic court filing.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107
> the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright
This line is insulting. HN can understand, there is nothing simple about a photocopy machine. Kat Von D could probably create her own tattoo tools, but could she create her own photocopy machine?