Ask HN: A good source of salaries at FAANG in EU/UK?
Hi,
levels.fyi is very US-centric and glassdoor.com is highly unreliable.
What's a reliable source of EU/UK salaries for FAANGs? Particularly at senior staff/principal levels.
Thanks
What's a reliable source of EU/UK salaries for FAANGs? Particularly at senior staff/principal levels.
Thanks
Both stats from Indeed which say they are basing it on 11.6k salaries for UK and 29.8k salaries for US.
Personal opinion but it matches what I expect. America is where the tech companies flourish and talent resides, as much as we would like to say healthcare is more important than double your average salary in EU I'm not convinced. I'm sure for some people it is however.
As for FAANG specifically I'm unsure but do be careful as taxes in UK are a bit more harder on you compared to somewhere like Austin. You lose 40% of anything you earn above ~£50k in England.
[0] https://uk.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries [1] https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries
Regarding taxes, once you’ve taken out state, federal, property taxes and healthcare (just to keep things comparable), I get taxed more in the US than I would in the UK. Property taxes alone run at ~$16k/year.
But seems like overall it would work out to be about the same. Certainly not a huge difference in tax levels.
Examples: my health insurance for the family is ~$500/month, my electricity and gas bill (combined) peaked at $1200/month, property taxes are ~$1300/month, all rounded to $100.
I fixed the electricity by installing solar and (later) Tesla power walls, but I can’t do much about the other two.
It still works out, monetarily, for me because (and I’m not sure if I was clear on this before), I didn’t make anything like this sort of money in the uk, and didn’t really expect to.
That is insane. Why so high? are these normal rates in the US?
I pay £100-£120 for electricity (no gas here).
I wonder if FAANG type companies are the only viable options for the move over to get a VISA.
As for taxes I think California is one of the special cases where taxes are similar to UK levels but of course having a massive salary boost ceiling helps offset that.
I spent 3-4 years wooing an Apple VP at trade shows twice per year, which was the entire point (the exit strategy) for what we were doing - video asset management in the film industry. This particular VP wanted "Asset management" in photos and figured that video was harder than photo, so we'd be a good fit. We were actually aiming for "Final Cut" but we got "Aperture" instead. It got to the point where he'd send me a calendar slot to appear and demo the latest work/progress on the stuff we were doing at both IBC (Amsterdam) and NAB (Vegas) every year. They eventually decided to buy the (small) company and as part of that we had to come out and work in CA, which to be honest, wasn't too big a problem :)
As for how it started, myself and my co-owner took ourselves out to Amsterdam, walked up to an Apple stand at IBC and said "we've got something we'd like to show you. Can we have a slot with someone with the capability to make the decision ?" This actually worked (!) It still took a few years to persuade him, but I've since been at the company for 16 years. Sometimes you have to take the risk and tell yourself that being told "No" isn't the worst thing in the world - and I was pretty sure we'd be told 'No', but hey, we weren't.
Any chance I could contact you as a newer grad from a similar background?
Where in the world did you hear that?
"roughly 99 percent of U.S. children are born" in a hospital
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/03/11/7008297...
> holiday If you earn significantly more, you can just take unpaid vacation. Also, quite a lot of companies voluntarily offer more paid vacation days. On the other hand, I have 20+ days off, but can't afford to go to any interesting place.
> maternity leave New mothers can have up to 3 years break from work, except this means that there's rampant discrimination against women of child bearing age.
> public spaces What do you mean by this?
> tax incentives That 99% of population can't take advantage of.
> tuition University is not free in the UK either. From what I found quickly, in-state tuition in public US universities is comparable to tuition in England.
> healthcare Left my favorite to the last. Yeah, it's free. But need to get something done?
- Want a hip replacement? 219 to 1300 days. - Need a radiofrequency ablation? 42 to 279 days. - Have to get your tonsil removed? 57 to 609 days. - Have a gallstone? 109 to 469 days.
The numbers are not a typo, nor did I cherry pick them, just the first random numbers for the website that tracks them. So yeah, it's free, but you absolutely get what you pay for: shit.
Now please, tell me, how good socialism is :)
You are comparing unpaid holiday to paid holiday. I think we are done talking right here since you are not likely to be reasoned with, but I will still reply to your rubbish.
Majority of people can afford one non-local vacation every year, if you can't afford one you are in a large minority in which case you are talking about extremes. In the extreme example you are choosing between having money but not being able to take holiday and having holiday but not being able to go anywhere. The choice is obvious. In non-extreme examples, in the UK I have 28 PAID days of holiday allowance every year. In the US people get two weeks of UNPAID holiday. Nothing else needs to be said.
"New mothers can have up to 3 years break from work, except this means that there's rampant discrimination against women of child bearing age."
Women in the UK get 41 weeks PAID maternity leave. Women in US get 10-12 weeks UNPAID. For the record, WHO recommends minimum 16 weeks for mothers to stay home with the children after birth. Nothing else needs to be said.
"public spaces What do you mean by this?"
A percentage of tax collected is being spent on public spaces; parks, playgrounds, squares, pedestrian zones... in the US these mostly belong to a development, which is a private area. Exceptions are large projects in NYC and Boston. Public spaces directly affect and increase the living standard and "happy index".
" tax incentives That 99% of population can't take advantage of."
This is complete nonsense. Every UK resident receives tax-free allowance per year, depending on the income tax band, which they can use to earn extra money on the side without paying any tax. In majority cases that amount is £12k pa which is not negligible. Every resident also has the option to open a S&S ISA where they can deposit up to £20k every year and use that money to invest in stocks and other financial instruments without paying any tax on the profit. Every house owner has the option to sell the house without paying any tax on the profit. There are so may more such schemes that Americans can only dream of.
"> tuition University is not free in the UK either. From what I found quickly, in-state tuition in public US universities is comparable to tuition in England."
No it isn't free any more in the UK, but it is in most of Europe.
"> healthcare Left my favorite to the last. Yeah, it's free. But need to get something done?"
This again is complete nonsense. Having free healthcare doesn't prevent you from paying for private healthcare. They are no mutually exclusive. If you can afford it you can have both, but in the US you don't have that choice. You have to either pay or die.
Tonsils, gallstone... are not acute life threatening conditions. You don't have to wait to have an urgent operation. But you can get non-urgent medical procedures done "free" should you wish to wait. Because healthcare is a basic human right in Europe, whereas in US it's a luxury and a privilege because you not just need to be able to afford to pay for it, you also need to be HEALTHY before you can apply for one. There is a screening process when you apply for healthcare and if you are sick or are likely to inherit a medical condition that will require long treatment you will NOT be granted healthcare. If you have chronic condition that needs to be treated but can't be cured, you will only be entitled to a certain amount of medicine before on your policy. After that you are on your own. Pay or die.
This barely scratches the surface. I haven't even mentioned pensions, worker rights, public transportation. Every American that came here through internal transfer in our company decided to stay here and doesn't want to go back. I wonder why, surely YOU must know better than them.
> that's part of the former soviet block
> Majority of people can afford one non-local vacation every year
Maybe in the UK, but come to Eastern Europe, and try telling that to people. No, we absolutely can’t.
> You are comparing unpaid holiday to paid holiday I’m comparing them, but not conflating them.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b... The average number of paid vacation days offered by private employers is 10 days after 1 year of service, 14 days after 5 years, 17 days after 10 years, and 20 days after 20 years.[186][189
I’d be okay with earning 3/4x times as much, and having to negotiate vacation days, versus not earning enough to go on a vacation in the first place.
> The choice is obvious. In non-extreme examples, in the UK I have 28 PAID days of holiday allowance every year.
Your non-extreme example is 40% more than what I have, so again, how is that not extreme?
> Women in the UK […] Nothing else needs to be said
So it’s fine in your country, end of story, and fuck me for living somewhere where that’s not the case. Got it.
> you listing some tax stuff in the UK
Non of that here.
> No it isn't free any more in the UK, but it is in most of Europe
So let me get this straight, when it’s good in the uk, than “nothing else needs to be said”, when it isn’t, you just wave your hand that it’s free in most of Europe. Okay.
> This again is complete nonsense. Having free healthcare doesn't prevent you from paying for private healthcare
I am (well, my employer) is paying for it, because I don’t want to wait a year for small stuff. The funny thing is, it costs less than what the government is taking from my salary for healhtcare.
> not acute life threatening conditions. You don't have to wait to have an urgent operation
No, not for an urgent one, but for important, quality of life improving operations you absolutely have to. Yeah, they won’t let you bleed out on the street corner, but that’s a fucking low bar.
> you can get non-urgent medical procedures done "free" should you wish to wait. Because healthcare is a basic human right in Europe
Again, not true, healthcare is not a basic human right in Europe. There are various laws in some Europen countries about denying you care if you don’t pay, and they’l even send the tax collection agency after you for the price of a life saving operation.
> Pensions
Which pay like shit, and there’s a high probability that all will collapse by the time I’d get to "enjoy it”.
> worker rights
It was very convenient that you ignore my comment about discrimination against hiring women of child bearing age. Workers rights sounds nice, but the reality is far from ideal. We also have a law that was dubbed “slave law”, because it allowed companies to have absurd amount of overtime without extra compensation.
> public transportation
Which has nothing to do with socialism? It’s not free, and it’s even more expensive in the UK.
> surely YOU must know better than them
Of quit it. Why are attacking me? You started off saying "Socialism is not just free healthcare, it's a mentality”, and I, someone who lives in a socialist country, that was with very part of the literal social soviet block, tell you that NO, it’s not all rainbows and unicorns, and than you have the audacity, from the UK, to tell me that I’m wrong??? The UK is one of the richest countries in the world, and ex empire. Let’s not compare some socialism things of a monarchy, with actual socialism.
In London mid level devs are typically paid closer to £45,000 and senior devs typically start at around £60,000 although £90,000 is quite common for a good senior dev.
I know the same applies in the US where bay salaries are higher, but London tech salaries are probably quite comparable to the average US non-bay tech salary.
As you say though taxes are something to factor in and cost of living too. I've personally found that living outside of London and contracting is the best way to go for a senior dev in the UK as there is less regional variance in contracting rates and they typically pay higher than salaried positions anyway (plus less tax if you find jobs outside of IR35). Another benifit of living outside of London is that you have a lower cost of living and a housing market that is affordable for individuals with decent income.
IME you can get a salary almost as good as in the US if you’re in London. Even at non-FAANG. People will tell you it doesn’t happen but if you’re in the right circles plenty of people are on that kind of money here. And that’s just tech, Finance is a big thing as well.
That’s also why you should try to stick to mass data rather than anecdotes. Not that Levels is perfect but I have to imagine it’s somewhat less infected with personal bias.
EU definitely pays worse and most of western EU has crazy high taxes. Financially you'd be better off outside the EU.
1 - https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Microsoft-London-Salaries...
Check levels.fyi, it is much closer to the truth. 250k GBP TC in London is possible at FAANG L6/E6 (or L5/E5 with some luck with stock appreciation). HFTs are also able to pay that.
The salaries at the bottom of the spreadsheet with a timestamp >= 2021/01/25 are from senior people, as they resulted from the survey being posted to /r/ExperiencedDevs: https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/l4qns3/ask...
Keep in mind that the salaries are self-reported without a way to verify them. Hopefully, most people are being honest.