Hacker News Reader

Comment by dheera | Hacker News Reader

I'd be much more concerned about Apple and all phone manufacturers.

It's much harder to go about life without a smart phone than to go without a Facebook account. If you don't register for Facebook and block websites from loading JS snippets from Facebook with e.g. a simple HTTP proxy or domain-based filter, you can more or less block Facebook from getting and selling any info about you.

With iOS or Google's version of Android it's damn near impossible to not hand out all your data.

EDIT: Thanks for the downvotes, I guess criticism of Apple isn't welcome here as usual. But I stand by my right to be suspicious of what they do behind a walled garden OS.

View on HN

I don't really agree with the premise that it's hard to forgo having a smartphone. Especially with the quarantine, most days I don't even know where my phone is, even if I'm out and about. The attention hogging is real even if you turn most notifications off and day-to-day, I don't really use most of the features.

An exception where a smartphone can make a huge difference is travelling — maps, translation, transportation etc all within your fingertips truly are priceless.

I do understand that I'm not the standard model user though, I usually only get a new phone once the last one literally isn't usable anymore.

It really depends on where you live.

A lot of places and apps are moving to require smartphones, and I hate this trend.

In China for example you can't even open a bank account without a smart phone, vending machines require smartphones, and even some robotic grocery and convenience stores are requiring a QR code scan to enter the store. I even saw a public restroom once that requires a QR code scan and SMS verification to dispense toilet paper. (That's right, no shitting at that toilet for foreign business professionals without a local +86 phone number and bank account.)

The whole world tends to be moving in that direction now. Uh, welcome to the future? On the US side I've had meetings with clients using Microsoft (R) (SM) (C) (TM) Teams that require a smartphone to authenticate. I have to deposit checks to my bank with a smartphone because they refuse to implement a web version and they also don't have a lot of physical branches. Even Signal, probably the only trustable E2E encryption app, wants a smartphone to log in (ugh).

Thank you for saying this. Most of the time I find my phone days later, behind a couch, out of battery, when I need it for navigation / translation.

The phone fulfils almost no other function in my life. Replaced grudgingly every 5-8 years, when it falls apart. I'm on my 4th mobile phone.

Not the "standard model user" either (thank god).

BTW, I keep one separate "security" phone for authentication. Ancient (my 2nd), internet off, stays put.

Avoiding Whatsapp is not an option where I live and work. Whatsapp all but requires a smartphone* , so smartphone it is.

* There are some feature phones that supposedly support it. These are hard to trust, and probably won't work once Whatsapp has an non-backward compatible update.

Where I live[1], you either have WhatsApp or you do not exist to your social circle and to the world. Yet, I do not have WhatsApp and live just fine.

[1] Brazil

> With iOS or Google's version of Android it's damn near impossible to not hand out all your data.

Isn’t this whole Apple-Facebook feud due to Apple trying to allow users to have more say in their data? It seems weird you’re criticizing them for sharing data in a thread about them trying to let users have more say about their data than competitors and their competitors wanting to sue them over it.

> If you don't register for Facebook and block websites from loading JS snippets from Facebook with e.g. a simple HTTP proxy or domain-based filter, you can more or less block Facebook from getting and selling any info about you.

How do you tell 80% (being generous) of the people to go about with JS disabled? Let alone setting-up a proxy, or setting your phone to even allow you to block domains.

At least 20% of people can block Facebook JS embeds. In the case of iOS it's more like 0.01%.\

You don't need to be so quick to assume it was Apple criticism.

I didn't downvote you because you criticized Apple or Google. I downvoted you because I don't think you made a very strong argument to support your claim about going without smartphones. There are reasonable options available with smartphones that don't spy on you. They're not flagship quality, not the fastest phones, but they work fine if your needs for a smartphone are to stay in contact with people for work/personal life, browse the internet, etc. PinePhone for example is gaining popularity & much cheaper: Their new version just sold out but they're taking pre-orders for the next shipment. For something a bit closer to flagship quality you can go for the Librem 5.

As someone who preordered a Librem 5 a year and a half ago, I’ll be surprised if this becomes a viable option any time soon (or ever). It still hasn’t received FCC certification https://fccid.io/2AT9R and the few that have been released out in the wild to some of the people who ordered in 2017 show a phone that still needs significant software work done and require multiple batteries or constant charging to last a whole day.

I just ordered a PinePhone in the latest batch. From what I’ve been able to find is the software support is a little better for the PinePhone, but the hardware is slower than the already slow Librem 5. It’s closer to being a daily driver, but not by much.

Neither of these phones are a replacement for what most people consider smartphones. Maybe through Android emulation they could be, but if it’s not available as a Linux application or a website then it’s not available for these phones.

I disagree about the ability for PinePhone to be a daily driver, but I suppose it depends on what you use your smartphone for. For me, it's phone/sms/web browsing. But if I concede your point, that still just makes the smartphone alternatives similarly lacking in the existence of Facebook alternatives. That still doesn't support the GP claim the smartphones should be of much greater concern, especially because we haven't even broached the social harm that Facebook has assisted. Privacy concerns may apply to both facebook & smartphones, but as far as harm done, smartphones in & of themselves on the same level as Facebook & other social media. Of course, opinions vary & I don't claim mine to be the actual factual way things are.

You can execute arbitrary code on iOS and macOS. Give me an example of something you can’t do?

Not without Apple's permission on iOS, you can't for longer than a week.

Once you have a Dev cert you can do what you like. You just can’t distribute it.

Don't you need to pay Apple $100 for that?

On iOS, only if you're willing to void your warranty. Being able to run arbitrary code really isn't in the same class as approved phone usage if the company retaliates against you for doing it.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com