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Ask HN: Boss ignoring me – what next?

47 pointsktrulr87 comments

I am an individual contributor with very high performance rating. My boss has been ignoring me for a few months. (Hasn't spoken to me for a long time. No new work). My guess is that, he wants to promote his favorites and he wants me to leave on my own. How do I handle this situation?

I know that the most common advice would be, speak to him. I am not considering it. Because it might turn out to be a false alarm I would be assigned a module which I am not interested in.

My current plan is to pretend that I am not aware of him ignoring me. And I will spend a lot of time learning technologies (Initially I wanted to quit, because it hurt me. But after reading various reviews, I learned that its pretty much the same everywhere. At least in my current company, the work life balance is very good. Since I am in 40's, I may find it a little difficult in a new company)

My question is, have you been in a similar situation?. How did you handle it?. If I want to pretend (that I am unaware), for how long can I do with some self respect?

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Let me give you one other potential where you not speaking up is a mistake.

Your boss knows you are a high performer and you are taking care of bugs and keeping it off his radar so s/he doesn't have to stress about it so he leaves you alone out of respect. He trusts you and knows you are capable and you don't need your hand held, hence your high ratings prior. He may not realize how much time has really passed because things you take up are just done and there isn't a concern and he's focused on other team members who are struggling or need more day to day help. It is possible you are reading into the situation what you fear rather then reality.

I'd suggest you call or send a quick email to your boss that isn't passive aggressive etc. But also do so to protect yourself so it is a fine line. I'd say something like, "Hey Boss, I've solved the last few defects x, y, and z and realized that we hadn't connected recently and wanted to take 5 minutes and just make sure I am doing the priorities you feel are most important." This way if he is building a case against you he'll have to respond in a way you know otherwise his case would become weaker. The fact you let it go on for months is already a weakness, but not beyond fixing. If you ignore, you will leave either by their action or your own and you'll be bitter which can poison your new job search, so do your part and then at least you feel good even if you leave as you'll know you did everything you could.

I have recently been in, what I think is this situation. I didn’t speak to my boss from April ‘20 through to last month. From my POV he trusted me to work with other teams and choose my own priorities - he’s in quite a unique place in our organisation where he’s pretty high up but has his own “branch” where he hires people directly. However, there are definitely people who he does ignore because it’s easier not to have to deal with them or their problems (and can’t remove for other reasons), but from the outside there is little to differentiate the situations.

However, although the freedom was nice, it didn’t really do anything to focus my career, challenge me to improve, or advance in the organisation politically - so I switched over to working directly for one of the teams I had mostly been working for anyway, and a boss I already have a good working relationship with.

If you don’t have the working relationship with your boss that you feel you need, and don’t see them having that relationship with others - then maybe you need to consider a change. Hopefully it’s not so completely hopeless that you can’t tactfully discuss it with them, at least.

Thanks misnome. I can relate to it

Thanks a lot davismwfl. I appreciate. Will do that

I agree with Davis. You spend more time managing low performers and put trust in your high ones. I'd just ping them on Slack or ask for a quick call. It's weird you, if someone is doing really well we talk about things other than work and work for about 5 minutes. Remember too, people are going through covid and it's a stressful time for everyone including your boss.

This might be a great advice for corporate players but is kind of ignoring the fact that (as a high performer or just decent person) you deserve some respect. From my experience „speaking up“ does not help in those situations. Better (also) start looking for a new position now. A plan B will get you in a much better position.

A lot of developers skip right over the phase where they respectfully seek clarity about a difficult situation right into "speaking up" and lambasting their manager for perceived slights.

Those are the situations where "speaking up" does not help. Trying to have an honest and earnest conversation should always be the first step.

Thanks for the input

Yes. I would like to add that even in professional environments you should have some level of trust in your gut feelings. It is great to reflect and be critical of one self, to try and see thigs from different perspective. Maybe ask a friend at work first.

Thanks for the input

> I know that the most common advice would be, speak to him. I am not considering it. Because it might turn out to be a false alarm I would be assigned a module which I am not interested in.

So, the title of this article should instead be "I am ignoring my boss".

It's entirely possible that your boss is sitting in their office thinking about their employee that avoids them constantly and shows no initiative to involve themselves in new projects.

I don't mean to say this in a derogatory way, but I've worked with people that describe their work environment like you did in the OP. They get fired, say they knew it was coming, then blame everything but themselves.

You know what the most common advice is and you actively shun it.

Until you take some initiative, engage with your fellow humans and own up to your insecurities, you will always feel like the world is conspiring against you. It's not. The world largely doesn't care about you, doesn't remember you and is fine discarding motionless parts in the machine.

MAKE yourself useful, or accept that you didn't.

I get your point. Its not that I completely ignored it. I did a lot of things proactively. But he doesn't seem to be interested at all. That's when I realized, I would rather focus on my own career.

Did you talk to your boss about this? If not, then you somehow avoided the precise thing that you needed to proactively do.

> But he doesn't seem to be interested at all.

Great bosses are interested and nurture.

Ok bosses are overwhelmed and trying to stay afloat.

Bad bosses are negative forces.

It’s really nice to have a great boss, but usually I have an ok boss. So I don’t fixate if they aren’t interested, so what can I do. I can be more interesting.

Bosses aren’t parents, and they aren’t gods or shepherds. They are people too and it’s important to not build up mental fantasies where they need to be interested or there’s some exclusive choice between focusing on your own career and focusing on your bosses career.

> My guess is that, he wants to

Don't do this. Don't assume what might be happening and create stories around that and plan your career on top a big pile of assumptions. If you have concerns, speak to your manager. It doesn't need to be defensive, you don't need to make a big deal out of that conversation, just check in to see how they are doing and let them know how you are. I find it surprising that you don't already have a scheduled regular one-to-one meeting.

Thanks a lot for the input

I also find you (the OP) are making too many assumptions. Reading your message we (the readers) may just as well conclude your boss thinks your are doing good work and you are best left alone. Maybe your boss thinks you are a difficult person to talk to. The problem is informal discussion is difficult in those pandemic times although AFAICT everybody misses it. So if your boss is not making the effort to keep the link alive maybe you'll have to do it.

Maybe he does not like you but still thinks you are doing good work. In this case a formal a one-to-one and asking directly what he thinks of your work is a better approach.

If he both does not like you and does not like your work, there is not much to be done.

My be its an assumption. May be there is some truth it. (most likely) That's what I was confused about. I haven't met him since march ( due to WFH). You are right. If he doesn't like me, there is nothing much I can do about it.

Informal communication is difficult in those pandemic times although as far as I can tell everybody misses it. So if your boss is not making the effort to keep the link alive maybe you'll have to do it.

Speak up. I was a high-performing, highly rated developer, and after a year of quiet and little feedback or interaction with my "boss", was presented with a negative performance review. It was filled with things that spanned the whole year, were never discussed with me, were due to multiple misunderstandings on his part, etc.

A specific example: early in 2019, my boss wanted me to do interviews. I had never done interviews in 30 years as a dev, and wasn't comfortable with it, so I pushed back. He dropped it (or so I thought) and it was never mentioned again...until my performance review. That's when he said I wasn't a team player, wasn't performing my responsibilities as a senior dev, etc.

Thanks a lot for the input

There seems to be lot of bad managers here justifying your boss's behavior. Don't buy that. Seems like you have a bad manager who seriously lacks communication skills and doesn't care about your growth if he has been ignoring you for months. It could also be that his priorities are different now where you don't fit it, still that doesn't excuse for poor communications. This is the reason why regular 1-1 meetings are so important. Does he do that or no?

Thanks for the input. I agree. He doesn't do 1-1 meetings

Then your boss sucks. There’s no excuse for a leader who doesn’t do 1:1s.

You have a bad boss. You may also be a bad employee. (What do you mean no new assignments? What do you spend your days doing??)

1. Update your resume. You should do this regularly even if everything is fine.

2. Ask your boss where you can help out, since you seem to have some time. That's all. Don't confront him over being ignored or any such thing. Just offer to help.

3. Start checking out other jobs you could apply for. You don't have to apply but you have to be ready to do so when the need arises.

4. If nothing else changes, your next review is likely to be terrible. Change things before that happens. Whether you change this job or change to another one, don't wait until you're angry, or worse, unemployed.

Thanks for the input.

Send an email asking your manager how they're doing, what interesting things are happening, and how you can help them with what they're doing. One short paragraph. No negative thoughts. No "hurt and licking my wounds" undertone. No "you've been ignoring me" or "I feel excluded". Just something with the general feeling of "hey, how are you holding up, hope you're doing fine, how may I help".

They may have forgotten about you. They may not be checking with you because your performance ratings are high and you don't require to be "managed" that much, and their attention is on someone who's having trouble performing their job. Heck, they may be having trouble or going through harsh times. You don't know.

I have seen this very dynamic happen when I was in contact with both the "boss" and the "contributor" who felt the "boss" was mad at them and shunning them and didn't want to talk with them but I had first hand factual knowlege that none of this was true. I gave the same remark as the above. The "boss" was happy to receive the email, and the contributor was relieved to find out that all their thoughts were unfounded.

Now, I'm not telling you that your boss is not ignoring you; that is a possibility, after all. I'm telling you that there's a high chance it's not the case.

You are a seasoned contributor and it's not lost on you that managing your manager is something you ought to do.

>My guess is that, he wants to promote his favorites and he wants me to leave on my own. How do I handle this situation?

>I know that the most common advice would be, speak to him. I am not considering it. Because it might turn out to be a false alarm I would be assigned a module which I am not interested in.

This is a dangerous vicious circle: assuming the manager has bad intentions, being aware of the most common advice, which is the most common for a reason, and not wanting to speak with the manager.

You'll go into overdrive for nothing as the work life balance is very good, and your performance is high. You will waste this.

I want to second what's being said here. High performers can often escape a manager's attention because the manager has limited time and needs to push weaker contibutors forward with that attention (or risk spending even more time hiring).

Yes, and the high performer can be helpful in these situations and help the person/team who's having trouble pulling through, taking that off the plate of the manager and enabling them to do other things.

Thanks a lot. I hope so. But it doesn't look like. Lets see how it goes.

Thanks a ton for a great advice. I appreciate it. 1. That's my doubt too. (I mean it could be a false alarm) One good quality my manager has is that, he doesn't do micromanagement. Trusts the employees. (I think work from home also adds to the confusion. Had there been some in person interactions, I could have interpreted better) 2. Having said that, I strongly suspect he is deliberately ignoring me. With due respect, he is a very mediocre manager.( in terms of technical knowledge etc.). Only silver lining for me is that, my 2nd line manager ( his boss) is technically very good and he rates me very high. He still talks to me.

It might be worth having a conversation with your 2nd line manager, and see if he's got any insight into the situation.

Thanks. Will do after some time.

>One good quality my manager has is that, he doesn't do micromanagement. Trusts the employees.

Management depends on the "managed". A manager might let someone do practically what they want with little supervision because they have a track record of getting things done, being right almost all the time, and knowing when to tread lightly or ask for a greenlight when the risk/reward ratio calls for it. That same manager might be micromanaging on a task by task, day by day, or hour by hour someone new to the team during observation. You can point some people at a problem and forget about them. Some people will anticipate problems managers overlook. It really depends on the person. There's no size fits all in my opinion because people are different.

>I think work from home also adds to the confusion. Had there been some in person interactions, I could have interpreted better

Suggest that as an idea. Weekly or bi-weekly calls to align everyone.

I used to go on walks with team members. We'd go outside of the office and just walk in the city and talk about things. It was very, very, effective in getting people to talk about frustrations and share their opinions when we were outside of the office and there wasn't a laptop we could hide behind or a sofa to go back to. We also have a balcony in the office with a view on the Mediterranean, directly facing the port, and we've had many conversations there. We've been working remotely for a year now, and we've been doing weekly calls with Jitsi with the team. We record the videos and make them accessible for reference. This has been useful as people refer back to them. We share our screen and go through code. Sometimes we troubleshoot things and we prototype things live. It's cool.

>With due respect, he is a very mediocre manager.( in terms of technical knowledge etc.)

He's lucky to have you then. Any manager works to hire people who are way better than themselves. Why would anyone hire people otherwise? He makes decisions based on tradeoffs. He may not be great in terms of technical knowledge, but you are, he's relying on your deeper technical knowledge to make decisions and tradeoffs.

>Only silver lining for me is that, my 2nd line manager ( his boss) is technically very good and he rates me very high. He still talks to me.

Not good enough. I think this ought to be sorted out for the sake of everyone and for the sake of getting things done.

Thanks a lot. Good advice. I appreciate.

> I am an individual contributor with very high performance rating.

Considering that your current plan is to learn new tech on company time and not speak to your boss, the high performance rating must be due to your boss really liking you. So you have nothing to worry about.

Thanks a lot for the input

Do you not have regular 1:1 time with your boss?

It boggles my mind how people seemingly don't understand the importance of having protected time 1:1 with your direct boss.

No. We dont have a regular 1:1 scheduled You are right. That's a good practice. I think each manager has his/her own style.

Country? Culture will have an impact here.

Honestly it sounds like you are abdicating yourself of responsibility, To be blunt Have you asked for more work?

Especially in the current situation with COVID it could be that you are simply not his top priority, maybe he assumes you have work to do and is focusing on others.

So recommendations.

- Talk to him, do not mention 'being ignored' simply tell him you're interested in the current projects and would like to be involved.

- If he is hostile/unhelpful during the conversation and decides to continue not providing work, start exploring new job options.

Thanks a lot for the input. To be honest, I haven't asked for the work. Because it kind of sucks. However, I have done a lot of POC'S, explored competitor products, proposed new ideas etc. They dont value it.

Does your boss do this to other team members as well? If so, then likely the boss is at fault.

My suggestion is to setup 1:1 time and without asking specific questions about feeling ignored, just have a chat. Ask how they are doing, share how you are doing and how are things in general. An open ended question.

That should give an idea on what’s happening with the boss.

I wouldn’t assume anything before you get some info

Thanks for the input. No idea if he does this with other members. WFH environment makes it difficult. Sure. Will have a 1:1

The first thing I'd say is that while this must be stressful there is no point worrying about what you can't control. It follows then that you must feel that changing your current situation (or the politics surrounding it) is not within your control - as your Boss is ignoring you. If that is true (and it is well worth considering if that is the case) then the question here is what do you want to achieve? If it is learning a new technology - then that's great, use the time to learn it.

I have previously found myself isolated within a large compnay and used the time to learn. In my case the situation resolved when the politics changed (change of leadership) and I was re-engaged.

I've found it helpful to have a goal beyond technology - so learning a new technology would be a means to another business (social or political) outcome. As I'm sure you've experienced, technologies come and go.

Thanks a lot for the input. Yes. In a way I dont mind it, because I am using it to learn things. Fair point. By technology, I dont mean just tech stacks or programming languages. I am exploring domain/business problems/solutions too.

As a high performing IC, you should be able to identify new work and you think benefits the company. Send an email when an update on some of the cool things you done over the months and what you are planning.

Ask an action forcing question with your default path forward if he doesn’t respond. Send an update a month later on how that turned out.

Fair point. That's exactly what I did. Implemented a few high impact POC's ( my own initiative). But to my surprise, they were not interested at all. (Not only my manager. But a few other senior guys). That's when I realized its not worth it.

Did you consider that if they weren't interested, that your evaluation of "high impact POC's" is likely incorrect?

Fair point. You could argue that. But the place is full of mediocre people. And almost everyone is in comfort zone. ( I am not saying, I am a genius though)

I think what’s hard is that you need to keep doing that over and over, don’t stop. Sometimes I think something is really good, but it doesn’t stick for one reason or another. What I try to do is timebox to a few weeks or months and then try something new. It’s hard to understand all the factors that affect interests, so if my stakeholders aren’t interested I try to work on something new.

I also try to share the metrics for why I think something is valuable. Specifically calling out the quantitative and narrative value to try to have the value be understood.

If you've finished work in your responsibility areas, you have no new ideas for investigation or proposals for change, you have gotten no new ideas for what needs done from other coworkers (complaints, buggy processes/tools, upgrades, refactors, etc.), then it's on you to ask your boss if there's something new to do for you. Bosses LOVE adding to your plate, but only if you ask for it and can take it. Otherwise, it could be detrimental for both.

Anyhow, modern leadership just doesn't care and is restricted to not interfere by boss' boss and guidelines. So they're basically useless for other than the strictly mundane. Connect with other bosses, owners and even techies, in order to get proper work.

It can be different from place to place, but you're mainly describing modern work culture as it is.

Thanks for the input.

Hey, keep in mind that we are living now in a bit extraordinary times. Your boss is also human as you. He may have more important things in his mind at the moment rather than you doing your work (and seems you are doing your job well).

During these silent months he might have had gone through covid. Or someone from his family. You don't know.

Remember that we, apart from being engineers, coders, solving business problems, whatever, we also also human and communication is a key. If I can suggest, just give him heads up, give a short report and ask how are things as it's been a while since you spoke. And that you hope that things are fine in these extraordinary times.

You cannot imagine how much people are struggling at work within these times, where on surface all seems fine.

Thanks a lot for the input. Yes. I completely agree with you

> My guess is that, he wants to promote his favorites and he wants me to leave on my own.

Do you want to be promoted? If so, if you can not address this issue with your boss in a professional manner, why should you be promoted?

To me it sounds like you are trying to avoid confrontation.

It's clear that you don't trust your manager. If you continue working for them, you will suffer anxiety. You will be unproductive and will be unhappy about it. You will receive poor compensation. Overall, the situation is bad for you and the company.

Is there another manager in the company that you trust and like working with? Talk with them about switching. If not, start your external job search.

Finding a new job takes time and effort. The benefit of finding a position with a manager you trust is worth the effort. You will be grateful to yourself for doing it.

Thanks for the input

Partially been in that situation. Usually this is a sign that your Boss feels that your presence isn't wanted anymore and is doing his best to signal you that, without having to fire you.

You could confront him directly, ask him to come clear and/or you can start looking for alternatives. My opinion (I am hardly 30, so maybe think it over), is that he doesn't want to be direct with you , for whatever reasons.

Correct. That's my reading too. They wont be comfortable firing since I have always got high rating and have a very good reputation. In such cases, they resort to this. I think its a common industry practice.

It is tricky politics. It is hard to explain to HR why someone with such good ratings has to be fired (or the potential of lawsuits), but OTOH, they might think that you are overpaid and classic ageism (atleast what I hear is that if you aren't management by 40s, ICs are too expensive and can be replaced with cheaper 20 year olds to do the same tasks). It is sad that our industry sees programmers as pieces of meat to be replaced when necessary, but that is the hard reality, most of the times.

If you’re not working on something your boss values, you are setting yourself up to being fired. Why should you be getting paid if you’re not doing something that your boss thinks is useful?

You should request a weekly or biweekly meeting 1 on 1 and talk with him. If he refused then try to switch to a different group, or leave the company on your own terms.

Thanks for the input.

"Your boss knows you are a high performer and you are taking care of bugs and keeping it off his radar so s/he doesn't have to stress about it so he leaves you alone out of respect."

The other side of this coin is hat you will, for the same reason, also be off the radar for any kind of promotion. Why change a winning formula, right?

Yes. Good point.

Mahne take a chance and show initiative. Build something that the business can use and present it to them as a prototype that can be finalized quickly.

I'd say this situation isn't so bad. I've had situations where I was high performing, given plenty of work, then given an average rating for political reasons.

Thanks for the input.

Even if it doesn't work out on the current team, the work you did that shows initiative and business understanding can be a huge selling point when looking to switch teams or companies.

Take this advise for what it's worth. Your manager is human and they have their own growth or exit plans.

Identify what makes them tick, and serve as an ally for helping them realize that.

Over time, you would have earned goodwill, sympathy and the requisite social capital to negotiate, request and demand rewards.

Thanks for the input

> If I want to pretend (that I am unaware), for how long can I do with some self respect?

Look out...You’re becoming Milton Waddams, The Red Stapler Guy from Office Space.

Not appropriately managing-up (that is to say you actively managing Boss/Executive relationships) frankly, sounds meek.

Sounds like your boss is building a case against you. He could say you haven't done anything in months, nevermind that he hasn't given you anything. So it sounds like you'll be looking for a job no matter what, so why not leave on your own terms?

Sounds like it to me too. But these are not great times to move job -- in the interim you should be using your time to learn new technologies which you could reasonably explain might be useful to you current post, since you boss has not assigned you any new work. Make sure you keep records of all pertinent communications with him, so that you can demonstrate the latter if push comes to shove.

Good luck!

Why is this not a great time to move jobs? Surely it depends on what the company does. Engineers are still in high demand.

Thanks for the input.

Is your course of action strengthening the team?

If not, choose a different one.

If it does, carry on.

However, I advise you check in with your boss. It's healthy. Much healthier than being assigned to a module you don't prefer. The assignment will pass. The uncertainty won't until you talk.

Good luck.

Thanks for the input.

Time for a skip level with your boss's boss. That being said, I used to go months without talking to my manager as I found little utility in it. I generated my own work.

Thanks for the input.

I've never been an IC (they don't really have that role in my country) but this seems a bit strange. Why not have a video call to catch up?

IC = individual contributor

Software developers are ICs.

I'm quite happy this post got some answers. It wouldn't have helped the situation if it also got ignored.

> No new work

Are you doing something trackable, like fixing bugs

Yes I am. But there aren't too many bugs though.

We’re hiring remotes. What stack and what time zone are you in?

Not the op but I'm a python(Django), vue/react, developer in a GMT +1 timezone.

Just speak to him :)

Thanks for the input.

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