How Early Megacities Emerged from the Jungles of Cambodia | Hacker News Reader

How Early Megacities Emerged from the Jungles of Cambodia

atlasobscura.com

102 pointspseudolus15 comments

This Atlas Obscura article asks:

> How did this medieval civilization thrive in an environment that would be challenging for us even today?

Speaking of the 9th-15th century Khmer Empire [1] in Southeast Asia.

> The answer, say archaeologists, is not that the Khmer were somehow ahead of their time... Instead, it was because Khmer urbanites came from a tradition of tropical city-building that looks very different from what we see in the more northerly regions of the Levant and Europe. For nearly 45,000 years, the Khmer’s ancestors were perfecting the techniques required to build and farm in the jungle, manipulating earth and water to make empires whose remains often melted back into nature, leaving very little trace.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Empire

Angkor Wat was and is a prime example of human civilization and its early prowess. However, the title is not entirely right. The Angkor Wat by itself was built by Suryavarman who was apparently a descendant of the Cholas of Tamilnadu, India. The Cholas and Pandyas are very under documented empires.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Suryavarman-II

There are tamil inscriptions in Angor Wat and the architecture is highly influenced by Chola/Pandya architecture.

https://www.quora.com/How-did-Tamil-Kingdoms-influence-Angko...

Some examples of what the Cholas and Pandyas accomplished which stands to today are

Tanjore Temple (Cholas) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX9-__GWHnA (Edit: Unfortunately, this video also has a lot of old western cliched ideas of Hinduism, hope I had a better documentary to share...) (for scale, this can fit 200 Taj Mahals)

Madurai Meenakshi (Pandyas) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQjI3DPt9Tk

You can see that the architectural pattern of 4 directional gateways with a central temple complex is basically the same as Angor Wat.

>The Angkor Wat by itself was built by Suryavarman who was apparently a descendant of the Cholas of Tamilnadu, India.

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that the Khmer dynasty was ethnically South Asian. Do you have a reference for this?

It is very interesting because Suryavarman is a very common Tamil name, Surya means Sun. All his ancestors names are also typical Tamil names and are very similar to names of Chola kings at that time.

I think that statement by avighnay is misleading to the readers. Ethnically, South East Asians are definitely not south asian. We can find filipino with mostly western names, malaysian with arabic names, indonesian with old sanskrit names, others with chinese names. however, their ethnicity? hmm

For those who are aware of South East Asian's history, they are influenced by the Indian and Culture culture for the past two millennia, in addition to their own local culture. We can find some traces of Hindu-influence temples AD 800-1500, Chinese trading since Tang Dynasty onwards, even western culture during AD 1500 onwards.

There doesn't seem to be anything apparent about Suryavarman's origins, at least according to what I've read from Cambodian scholars.

So the suburbs were first, who’d a thunk it?

The cities that arose out of the long history of tropical agriculture weren’t high-density clusters of stone buildings ringed by farms like many ancient cities. Instead, they were low-density sprawl that incorporated large swatches of farmland into the urban fabric. Homes and public dwellings were made from earth and perishable plant materials. Though impressive, these urban features quickly returned to wilderness after people had abandoned them.

In Bagan on 45 sq km a thousand of temples made of brick still stand while houses and palaces left no trace...

Also big cities in Central Asia like Merv had farms intra muros to shelter them from encroaching desert.

This is so different from what we imaginecas a city model...

> So the suburbs were first, who’d a thunk it?

They weren't first. Low density agricultural settlements are not suburbs, which are by definition an extension of the urban area, populated primarily by people not engaged in the agricultural economy, but rather the industrial economy.

To this day, suburbs are frequently built on top what were previously agricultural settlements, with somewhat similar densities but completely different functions.

Agricultural villages were first, not suburbs.

Suburbs are such a thorny problem. They are so inefficient and often badly designed. But they are there now. They are affordable and lots of people like living in them. It's going to take a lot of work in the coming decades to figure out what to do with all these suburbs now that we have them.

Maybe these low-density settlements can be some inspiration to how to solve the problem?

> Maybe these low-density settlements can be some inspiration to how to solve the problem?

The suburban agriculture movement is one option.

It is however hampered by the reality that in in a lot of suburbs, growing food - especially in the front yard - is perceived similarly to hang-drying laundry, which is that it signals poverty, and is often prevented by city councils and HOAs.

This is an outcome of the sociological reasons why suburbs formed in the first place.

The answer, I guess, is to participate in those city councils and HOA's, organize coalitions of similar-minded people, and push for changes.

I went to Angkor Wat. It is beautiful.

I also rented a motorbike and used Google Maps to locate other far less popular ruins. There is a ton of them that are easily located from the imagery.

It was a really fun set of adventures of driving a dumpy motorbike, by myself, down dirt roads in the middle of nowhere. Coming across ruins that no other tourists find.

I really miss travel...

My partner and I did the same thing 10 years ago on $1 per day bicycles. There are numerous large and impressive ruins scattered all over Siem Reap and you get then all to yourself.

I really miss travel too.

If you ever head back, check out 'Koh Andet Eco Resort'

After the Angkor Wat trip, I moved to Vietnam and then bought a motorbike and drove across the border, all over Cambodia. I found that resort also by zooming in on areas of google maps.

The whole resort is floating off a small island in the middle of a river. It is amazing.

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