AFAIK people usually don’t like the flavor nor texture of meat. If that was the case, you would see more people boiling the meat and not spice it. But AFAIK meat eaters tend to spice their meat a lot, to an extent where there it is the spice is the primary taste. They then oil the meat and prefer it fried or grilled which alters the texture as well.
With plant based food you have all these options and more.
If that was true, steaks would not be a thing. A good steak has some coarse salt and pepper for seasoning, but not much else.
Boiling meat is pretty much the worst way to prepare any cut of meat, and will ensure that it has a tough and unpleasant texture, strip all of the fats making it dry, and overall ruin a perfectly good cut of meat.
> But AFAIK meat eaters tend to spice their meat a lot, to an extent where there it is the spice is the primary taste.
That's just like saying "if people liked the taste of vegetables they wouldn't put salt or pepper on them."
Most people wouldn't eat plain tofu either, but it doesn't mean that it's bad, just means that it needs to be prepared as part of a dish, just like any other ingredient.
Also, salt is a very powerful spice.
I honestly don't get the point you're even trying to make here... because people do less to prepare vegetables they're somehow superior?
GP is saying that people like the taste and texture of meat. I’m saying that they only do after they have altered the taste and the texture of if. My point is that there is nothing inherent about meat that people like.
This is relevant to OP as the above claim is that there is no need to replicate the texture and taste of meat as you you have infinitely many ways to structure the taste and structure of plant based food, including ways that are superior in both taste and texture to how people prepare meat.
There is actually, otherwise people wouldn't try to make a plant based version of it. It's savory (as in umami), has a higher fat content than plants, and also can have a variety of textures depending on the cut and cooking method, among other things.
Why are you interpreting what I wrote as if I claimed that people like the taste and texture of *raw* meat? That's probably the most uncharitable possible interpretation of my argument. Stop being ridiculous.
> there is no need to replicate the texture and taste of meat as you have infinitely many ways to structure the taste and structure of plant based food, including ways that are superior in both taste and texture to how people prepare meat.
This is so absurd I don't even know where to start.
The whole point of the article and the plant-based meat alternatives it talks about is that finally there's something that's close enough to ground beef in taste and texture that it can be substituted, but it still needs to come down in price to be a viable everyday alternative. Every alternative that came before simply wasn't good enough, and only really appealed to people who were already vegetarian. And the success of Beyond and Impossible shows that there is clearly a market for products that replicate meat, because a lot of people want to buy stuff that tastes like meat.
When it comes to actual beef, there's absolutely nothing like it yet, in neither taste nor texture, and texture is the part that is hardest to get right. If there was something even remotely comparable, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because everyone would already be happily eating that alternative.
I'm sure you're happy eating your little salads, thinking they're superior to every other dish in existence. But you clearly don't understand why people like meat, and what they like about it, which is why you appear bewildered by these products and claim that there is "no need" for them.
These products will be a cornerstone of future environmental policy and ensure we can meet our sustainability goals for the entire planet.
Sorry, you—and GPs—are putting words in my mouth. I never stated such a thing. People think they like meat, but they don’t. They only like meat after the taste and texture has been altered. Even then they probably mostly like it from force of habit.
> When it comes to actual beef, there's absolutely nothing like it yet, in neither taste nor texture, and texture is the part that is hardest to get right
This is actually the point of the debate, and it is highly opinionated so I don’t think we can see each others point of view here. But in Europe there is a trademark soy based alternative called Oumph! which is not trying to replicate meat in any way, but it is simply delicious. In my opinion the impossible meat we have here in America is simply disgusting next to it. There are so many ways to make good food with plant based food and trying to mimic one type of food that people only like after it has been prepared and spiced, just seems a little short sighted.
I'd disagree with that, I don't think plant based foods are seasoned or prepared that differently. Maybe you're thinking of barbecue where meat can be rubbed, smoked, then slathered in barbecue sauce, but most people don't eat that on a daily basis. Besides, it's not as if vegetarian and vegan dishes don't have any spices, a curry or a chili will have just as many spices as a rack of ribs or a brisket, if not more.
A plant based burger is prepped just as a meat based one, fried chicken isn't that far removed from tempura vegetables, cream of celery isn't that different from cream of chicken, and so on. Honestly, I can't think of a plant based dish that wouldn't have a meat based equivalent, other than salad.
> Also, salt is a very powerful spice.
Depends on how you want to look at it. It's not really a spice in the sense that it's not aromatic or pungent, it's in the category of ingredients that enhance taste, like monosodium glutamate.
In short: There is nothing inherent about meat that people like. People only like meat after they have altered the taste and texture of it. People can do the same (and more) with plant based food. In conclusion: Striving for the taste and texture of meat in particular is a poor goal for plant based food, as superior options exist.
However, sous vide is an absolutely marvelous way to prepare meat. It keeps it tender and juicy and then you can just sear it in a skillet or with a kitchen torch to get that nice Maillard reaction taste.
[0] https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/08/sous-vide-salmon...
Pulled chicken and pork would like to have a word. The trick is to let the meat cool down in the water after boiling so that it reabsorbs the fluid it lost. You get wonderfully tender and juicy pulled meat, plus a good stock. And the world of braising is a deep and delicious one. Not to mention meat-based stews, soups, and chowders. I’d suggest that if you hate meat that’s been boiled, it’s been from someone who doesn’t know how to do it. Which I mean not as a dig, but as a way of saying that there’s a lot of good cooking out there waiting to be discovered!
I don't think your knowledge on this subject goes very far, because you seem to have very weird views of how and why meat is best prepared.
> With plant based food you have all these options and more.
A perfectly seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin is such a great experience that my mouth starts watering just thinking about it.
It is also currently completely impossible to recreate this experience using vegetarian options.
But that is not the point. I bet you only love seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin because you have learned to appreciate it. I on the other hand haven’t. The mere thought of eating beef gives bad taste in my mouth.
I bet there are million things that exists that you could learn to love even more then seared medium rare centercut beef tenderloin and I bet more then 95% of these are plant or mushroom based. Things like seared medium rare centercut matsutake mushrooms, or lightly baked eggplant paste, or raw kelp, or whatever.
You don't like meat, eating meat disgusts you, you don't understand how people can like meat, and yet you butted into this discussion with your completely unfounded opinion on whether or not other people actually like meat or not.
You also seem to think that people liking cooked meat somehow means they actually don't like meat, as if liking raw meat is the only thing that counts, for some weird made-up reason?
Are you so bad at understanding other people that you can't fathom that they actually, genuinely, like things you don't like?
...and to tie this back to the article we're discussing: If you don't eat meat or don't like meat, then Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger are not products for you! You are not the target group! And that also means that the marketing of those products won't be appealing to you. That's fine! They're not trying to get you as a customer anyway! They're trying to get me as a customer!
> I bet you only love seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin because you have learned to appreciate it.
Nope, it's just fantastic, no taste acquiring needed.
I am trying to debunk the idea that “[p]eople eat meat because they like the taste and the texture” which you commented after a parent said that “calling plant-based things "meat" [is] a terrible idea”. To quite:
> We can have all kinds of flavors for these products, instead of "meat" flavor, not having to "live up to" the meat taste, and mouth feel. We can live up to great flavors vegetables, fruits, and herbs.
You started this debate by stating as a matter of fact that people “like the taste and the texture [of meat]”. I am trying—albeit really poorly—to say that that simply isn’t true. My choice of attack was perhaps poor, since I cannot seem to get my point across, but I chose to use that fact the people alter the both the taste and texture of meat a lot before they consume it. And for some reason people seem to think what I mean here is that they shouldn’t. As if I’m trying to invoke a No True Scotsman in favor raw meat.
> If you don't eat meat or don't like meat, then Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger are not products for you!
Sure, they are not. But I really doubt that the people who these are for like it because of the meat part. I honestly don’t know why they like it (I bet there are a million reasons), but I doubt that more than a few of these is because it reminds of meat actually. Because—as I’m trying (poorly) to convey—there is nothing inherent about the meat part they like.
I won’t be eating the Beyond or Impossible products because, honestly, they suck compared to the alternatives. Although I haven’t found anything that comes close to a good Oumph! here in America (if this is this how a meat eater feels when they can’t access meat, then I honestly don’t see the big deal here, just eat something else).
The popularity of these products, compared to the multitudes of veggie patties that came before, proves you wrong.
The market for these meat-tasting meat-textured vegetarian alternatives is much bigger than the market for veggie-tasting bean patties, because there are a lot more people who like the taste and texture of meat than people who like the taste and texture of bean patties.
If it were not so, these new products would have failed as horribly as the ones that came before. But they're not, because the closer they get to the taste and texture of meat, the more popular they become! Why? Because people like the taste and texture of meat!
I understand that you are sad and angry and upset that people like the wrong food, and that people should like the right food, just like you do! But you're in the minority opinion on this one, so suck it up, buttercup.
> I won’t be eating the Beyond or Impossible products because, honestly, they suck compared to the alternatives.
The one thing that comes through in this discussion, which I also laid out in another subtree, is your intense food snobbery.
These new meat alternatives technically make people vegetarian, but they're doing it "wrong", so they're not "real" vegetarians, they're not yet enlightened to the glorious "infinite" tastes and textures of real vegetarian food. So if these horrible lowbrow troglodytes could just go back to eating real dead cow meat, people like you can go back to feeling smug and morally superior again, and then everything is right in the world and you don't have to descend from your ivory tower to scold the masses again.
Get outta here.