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Very true. I wasted nearly two years of my life at a toxic agency that prided itself on its culture and how the company was a family.

I'd dread Sunday evening. The morning drive to the office was always filled with a sense of impending doom. The finger pointing during "stand up". The end of the world when a TPS report didn't have a cover sheet, and mandatory meeting to come up with yet another new process to prevent future disasters.

Eventually I just said fuck this and gave my two weeks notice.

I had a mortgage, was the sole earner in my family, and had nothing else lined up. I was scared, but so relieved to never have to go back there.

One week later I was offered a job with a much better company and environment, for significantly higher salary. My only regret is not leaving sooner.

For anyone else whose life is similar, I just want to say that I have had jobs where I truly enjoyed going to work. I only had the “sunday scaries” just to participate in the meme of hating work. But I was really anticipating picking up where I left off at work.

So although you might find comraderie in other wage workers hating their life, still recognize that it is toxic and there are other realities that you are entitled to be in

This is really resonating with me, after two years in a job that had me think "I want to quit" by the weekly, it becomes the new normal and I can't imagine that a job can be stress-free, enjoyable, and provide good work-life balance. I just can't imagine that this exist.

I just quit my current job, and I told myself that I will quit in less than 6 months if I don't like the new gig. Never again.

At one point I stopped being able to sleep on Sunday nights, dreading the work on Monday so much.

Still took me way too long to put 2 and 2 together and leave...

Absolutely agree. I can't recommend enough that people look for new jobs as soon as they have major issues with their current one. Worst case, things improve and you just stop looking for a new one. Best case, you get a new job and things are way better. Even if the new job isn't amazing, at least the novelty and change of pace, plus the pride of having accomplished a new job, can recharge you enough to keep going.

At my first job, I was incredibly unhappy due to various reasons. I started looking for a job, and because I was already under so much strain from the current job, it took almost a year to find a new job. If I had waited until the breaking point, it would've been even more difficult to find a job due to having to recover from the first job, and then slog through almost a year of applying.

This isn't to scare people about the job market. But it's called a market for a reason. It's okay to have something today and look around for something better, even if what you have now isn't the worst thing ever.

Yes I have this discussion with other people. You can interview and just.. not take the offers.

The last couple places I left, I had offers up to a year or two before leaving but weighing cost-benefit, stayed at that time.

It's better to have the option than not. And interviewing is truly not that much work. You don't have to be perfect. The less you need the job, the less the interview process should stress you. We call this "opportunistic interviewing".

You can emphasize to the recruiter/HR/interviewer when pressed that - actually I'm happy where I am at the moment, but I am always up for a conversation and this sounded like it could be an interesting opportunity.

You may find companies even respond more favorably in the interview process to you when you are somewhat aloof in this manner. You will also make connections with companies who may touch base from time to time to see if now is a better time to make the jump.

This is infinitely better than having zero leads and feel like your life is going to hell before you even start looking.

> You can emphasize to the recruiter/HR/interviewer when pressed that - actually I'm happy where I am at the moment, but I am always up for a conversation and this sounded like it could be an interesting opportunity.

I agree with what you've said, but word of caution, this has to be handled with a bit of finesse, I think. I almost got passed over for a job because I said this and gave the recruiter the impression I wasn't that interested.

I had a acquaintance on another team who mentioned it to me, and I did a little "damage control" with the hiring manager. I got a great offer in the end -- and it was a great job -- but without that contact I would probably have whiffed it.

Indeed if the recruiter/hiring manager even gets a whiff that you're potentially wasting their time - it's game over.

> Indeed if the recruiter/hiring manager even gets a whiff that you're potentially wasting their time - it's game over.

It really depends on the company and role and person. In some situations there can be years of conversations before somebody makes the decision to accept.

Exactly, finesse is the name of the game for sure. There is a wide spectrum between uninterested and not-desperate. Appearing that you are desperate to get out of your current job is a far bigger red flag in most interview processes than appearing "not that interested".

It's like the other side of the coin of people who are super paranoid of getting fired if your boss finds out you are interviewing. If you are providing value, being a flight risk (within reason) increases your value not decreases.

You don't want to be so obviously foot out the door that they are looking for your replacement, but being the happy, uncomplaining soldier is not going to get you optimal raises/promotions.

Agree except interview even more often, as soon as minor issues emerge. Interview a few times a year for no reason whatsoever. Interview because you're tired of the way the boss' tie looks, or because maybe you'll get another 10K a year. Doesn't mean you're unhappy, or that you're even interested in these other companies, but it keeps you in touch and you just never know.

Yes. So many people I know wait for many years of bad raises / being unhappy before looking.

By that point you are so far in the hole that the new shop raise is unlikely to make up for lost gains, and you are likely so desperate you are going to take whatever is on offer.

Actually now what I'm thinking is: if I have the savings, the safety net, etc. next time I want to quit and look for something else, I'll just quit, and then spend enjoy as much free time as I want (in month unit), and then only look for a job when I want to go back into a job. The reason is: if you look for a job while you already have a job, then they'll end up forcing you to start earlier than you want, or you'll have that pressure at least. Better to quit and enjoy your free time, and then get back into a job when you're ready.

what sucks is if you do this a dozen times you're labeled a job hopper and no one wants to hire you anyway. I've had it happen to me many times. If you just keep at it though you'll find somewhere better. Don't just take the first thing that comes along but really dig in and ask questions so you know what you're getting yourself into. Interview THEM.

If you never stay long enough to finish what you started, it's hard to really accomplish anything. In my experience, that usually takes at least a year or two (usually two).

Also, if you run at the first sign of trouble, it's hard to really accomplish anything (or learn many things actually, since a lot of learning is failing and trying again). It's also expensive for the people managing you/teaching you and the org in general.

Those are the things people are concerned about when they talk about job hopping.

For anyone reading this - if you have a pattern of moving every 6 months, or a year - and it's consistent - there may be underlying issues (mental health, interpersonal problems, unrealistic expectations, lack of skills/fit to the role) that would be helpful to address. Long term, it is pointing to problems that are likely holding you back professionally, and may also make it more enjoyable being you if you worked on them.

That said - every time I've started a role or a job and said to myself 'this is terrible I should leave, but.... it's only been x time and I want to give it at least y amount of time' (where y was 6 months or a year), I've regretted it. The last time I had this happen, I knew I should leave literally 2 days in when my new manager cut short my supposed 3-6 months ramp up time to throw me directly into a particularly hard external customer negotiation issue.

I ended up burning out and damaging my reputation doing so trying to 'give it a try' - a year and a half later.

It's a balance. Look for patterns.

Such great advice.

“ For anyone reading this - if you have a pattern of moving every 6 months, or a year - and it's consistent - there may be underlying issues (mental health, interpersonal problems, unrealistic expectations, lack of skills/fit to the role) that would be helpful to address. Long term, it is pointing to problems that are likely holding you back professionally, and may also make it more enjoyable being you if you worked on them.”

Or, maybe you are perfectly healthy to leave crappy jobs and not stick it out to pad a resume.

Or, maybe you chose the wrong career and need to rethink a pivot to a different vocation?

So true! I also lost about 2 years and my physical and mental health really deteriorated and 5 years later I'm still dealing with fallout.

I was a manager under a toxic director, so I had the added pressure of making sure my team was all right. After most of them had found positions elsewhere, I finally left.

For future reference, having done it both ways - finding a good out for yourself(and putting your oxygen mask on first) is usually better for the people under you too, as it shows them what they should be doing AND gives them (often) a place they can reach out to and land.

It might also help push them off the fence, as they see their cover from the sewage storm disappear.

I think what's missing from these discussions is that some people burn out really easy and some people aren't phased by the toxicity at all. Depending on the level of toxicity not everybody needs to cut and run.

I know of a workplace where the boss is "verbally abusive" by white collar coastal standards (a real peace of work by blue collar middle America standards and a teddy bear by drill sergeant standards) and over the years people have cycled in and out and the people who've stayed are the ones who just let it roll right off and they're a really effective team.

There is also unemployment, which for a married/partnered dev should be sufficent to cover most rent and essentials in the interim.

You may need to pare down your expenses a lot prior to quitting but that's why you quit. You trade your toys in exchange for your well being