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Comment by 0xb0565e486 | Hacker News Reader

Am I the only one who feels a bit discredited when someone blames their ADHD for their shortcomings?

To me, all the ADHD symptoms listed in this article sounds like nothing more but normal human traits.

Also, author hasn't been diagnosed with ADHD, and the tips can be helpful to everyone.

You're not the only one that feels this way. Just like you're not the only one that probably feels like alcoholics should just learn to handle their liquor, bulimics should accept their body image, people with cardiovascular issues should just exercise more, stutterers should just stop stuttering, asthmatics should just breath better, etc. What you have is a lack of empathy and understanding for people that genuinely suffer from a condition that you don't suffer from, and yes lots of people are in the same boat as you.

You should just produce more insulin! You should just not get cancer! Deaf? Just listen harder!

As far as I can tell, empathy goes both ways, and I think it's a bit unfair of you to call me unempathetic for simply expressing how I'm feeling.

I also don't think the examples you give are great analogues to the situation (although highly related) as I've not meet a lot of people using alcoholism, bulimia and asthma as a way to avoid everyday tasks in contrast to ADHD.

I think you've misunderstood, which is natural considering feedback like this can be easily perceived as an attack, but GP's response was actually well-worded. You have a lack of empathy for the conditions these people have. That doesn't mean you are unempathetic. It means your behaviour to these people exhibits a lack of empathy for their condition. That is objectively true.

And it's worthwhile to remember, sometimes people have debilitating conditions that make them worthless for tasks. It is sad that some people are paraplegic. Those people cannot be wildfire firefighters. It's not an excuse or anything. I would not want to pay that person to be a wildfire firefighter because they cannot fight wildfires. If I were paying someone to be a wildfire firefighter, and then they lost all their limbs, I cannot indefinitely employ them as a wildfire firefighter anymore. If they were to say "It's not my fault I don't have limbs", I'd have to say "No, it isn't, but also, you can't fight fires. So I'll fulfill my responsibilities to you, but I can't employ you in this capacity any more".

If someone has ADHD and they can't do a job, then they can't do the job. Any general requirements you have as an employer are to make "reasonable accommodations", not to sit there as your employee sits there on their fourth year of doing nothing because they "have ADHD".

Yup, thanks for pointing that out. I did interpret it as "you are an unempathetic person" while that wasn't the case.

I can't help but be reminded of the classic Mitch Hedberg bit: "Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P28ErxjBY4o

I don’t think this is a fair characterization of what he was saying. Many of people that post these stories are self diagnosed, which should give you pause. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren’t. No one — including the poster — knows. If they do not actually ADHD, then they are using this self diagnosis as excuse. You see the same thing with people declaring that they’re “on the spectrum”, when called out for bad behavior. As one diagnosed autistic friend put it, “They’re not autistic. They’re just an asshole.”

I had the opposite experience -- for a very, very long time I assumed that a bunch of harmful, chronic behaviors were just a result of some unspecified personal or moral failing on my part. I would beat myself up about it and tell myself to "do better," without a path forward for how to do that.

2 years ago a friend who was diagnosed with ADHD started describing some of her symptoms and I realized it sounded exactly like what I experience. I started seeking treatment a few months ago (currently therapy, and undergoing screening for medication), and just reading through the list of symptoms while I was filling out a questionnaire recently was like suddenly being able to see color for the first time.

Knowing that what I experience is not just "normal human traits" and is in fact an identifiable disorder with concrete causes and solutions has totally reoriented how I think about some issues I face and has enabled me to actually address them in a way that wasn't possible before.

i don,t think it is either, but an environment way more demanding than what we previously lived in trying to squeeze every last drop of productivity out of ,,the stock,, and calling anyone who falls short disordered.

I think that our culture definitely demands more productivity out of people than is reasonable, but that's not really the issue I'm referring to. I'm referring to things like not being able to take my focus away from, for example, reading social media posts, in order to make an appointment or social event on time. Not being able to correctly conceptualize how long it will take me to get ready, leave my house and travel to where I need to be, no matter how many times I've done it. Doing this so often that it hurts friends, family, and work.

I think there is an argument that western medicine sometimes pathologizes people having normal responses to the insane demands of our society and economy. In my case, I have been struggling with my healthcare provider's bureaucracy to get a diagnosis because I really, really need help.

Is it reasonable to expect an individual to live by the societal clock?

> I'm referring to things like not being able to take my focus away from, for example, reading social media posts, in order to make an appointment or social event on time. Not being able to correctly conceptualize how long it will take me to get ready, leave my house and travel to where I need to be, no matter how many times I've done it. Doing this so often that it hurts friends, family, and work.

I'm the same way, and once I stopped trying to "fix" this "disorder", I've become not only much happier, but also more productive. Just one anecdatapoint.

Social media, I use it carefully. I keep asking myself, "am I learning something useful from this?"

I have been diagnosed with ADHD and to me it really has been great getting treatment. I think it's unfair to blame everything on ADHD and not take responsibility for anything but for me where I think it's different from someone who doesn't have it is that I was unable to pay attention during lectures for example. Like I really wanted to and the information was still interesting but I still couldn't get myself to pay attention and that caused a lot of anxiety and severely effected my self esteem since I was blaming myself and saying "well you just didn't try hard enough" and things like that. Like most things, ADHD is a spectrum so there is likely a lot of it that goes undiagnosed. A lot of the symptoms are pretty normal human traits but I think how much those traits are present is the big thing.

A doctor I know explained (when treating adults) that not only do they look at symptoms, they look at how the symptoms have affected life outcomes. Being unfocused or late to work sometimes barely scrapes the surface in describing what untreated ADHD can lead to over time.

> the tips can be helpful to everyone

https://medium.com/@mosaicofminds/the-curb-cut-effect-how-ma...

That was an interesting read. Thanks!

They are human traits when they are relatively easy to overcome, not easy at all with ADHD.

Frequency and severity of those symptoms are considered for the diagnosis. Everyone shows symptoms of depression sometimes; not everyone has depression.

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