India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

The capitol insurrection angle is also a new line being tested in the media for consumption.

tryied to run over a people https://twitter.com/MrsGandhi/status/1332679401738145792

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1353981108451336193

attacking with sword https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1354299202285625349

throwing off the wall https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1354091326971633669

https://twitter.com/rajbirk08499553/status/13554995166784798...

https://twitter.com/_dsbofficial/status/1355499255985790983?...

https://twitter.com/specialkbrook/status/1355446339946106881...

Police braking cctv to erase evidence https://twitter.com/gsmanes/status/1355171604896993287?s=21

The problem was that the Capitol was invaded while the Senate was in session, which made a bunch of lawmakers feel personally threatened. And when rich politically-connected people fear for their own safety, you'd better watch out.

Anyways, protests attack cops and cops attack protests in the US...oh, every few months? Such is life.

No cell tower == no cell service == no internet.

India is not losing its freedom, but with the amount of population and rumour mongering on whatsapp/social media tamping down on the internet sometimes is necessary. Earlier before data become ubqiquitous, they used to clamp down on SMS.

1. https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/who-are-shetkari...

2. https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/agriculture/how-ind...

There was monopolies of mandis(farmer are restricted only to sell here) now government allows them to make contract or sell anywhere.

I wrote posts on it : https://iamamitmurari.medium.com/farm-laws-farmer-issues-and...

They have a giant misinformation network, which has recruited everybody from bots to popular actors to popular sportspeople and they spread out misinformation in a highly organized manner. Very effective at spreading FUD which translates into votes come election time.

Even now, on Twitter and Reddit you'll find thousands of posts about how the protesting farmers are khalistani terrorists.

Goebbels would be proud of what the BJP have accomplished.

The way it has been going on is that government announces something or passes some bill because they have to do something on a particular topic (say black money, taxes, Covid). However, they are incompetent or don't have the willingness or interest in actually carrying it out. So, these changes turn out to be catastrophic. They take toll on economy as well as anyone impacted because of the decision making.

Agriculture reforms are much needed in India. However, the government did it in hurry by-passing rules and without consulting farmers. I guess, they just want to do something so that they can let the marketing take care of the rest (that the goverment has done something for farmers - doesn't matter what or irrespective of whether it really helps them).

With these bills, the concern is that it will let private players take over and exploit farmers because of insufficient provisions to take care of farmers' interest. And then nobody will care (very much a risk because no one raises voice of oppressed which might show government in bad light because of the sold-out media). And the government will push narrative that they did the "reforms" (backed by fake data which is a hallmark of this government).

It hampers the middleman more than the actual farmers. North part of India has two states which have significant contribution to farming in India - Punjab and Haryana.

New laws allow the farm owner to directly sell the crop to the corporate without any middleman. In the above two states the trade is tightly controlled by middlemen. Hence the issue. In other states, very few people are protesting.

Despite every misstep that BJP has taken, every economic blunder they have made and widespread increase in authoritarianism, its popularity has only risen.

One of the vilest BJP leaders, Ajay Bisht, who rules UP - one of the most backwards state in India is expected to be one of the upcoming PM candidates for the next election. It doesn't matters he has made Up into a bigger hellhole, but because he is a "yogi" (saint/ one who does Yoga), he is BJP's posterchild and one of its most popular leaders.

Their proposed laws deregulate agri markets but people no longer trust them to do any good: https://the-ken.com/the-nutgraf/the-trust-battery-is-at-1/

So yes, they overestimated their reach and this would have certainly been political suicide, if only they had any competent opposition.

Pre-independence, during the Zamindar System (Indian version of Feudalism). The Zamindar owned the land and the farmers worked on it and the Zamindar compensated them what he felt like. The farmers had no leverage to bargain and was pretty much the salve of the Zamindar. This was the Indian version of slaves.

Similarly after the Independence, the Zamindar System was abolished. But a market yards (mandis) system came up, here the farmer either owns the land or rents out the land from someone. But can ONLY sell the produce to the local Mandi. The Mandi has the upper-hand in deciding the prices and the farmer cannot negotiate as no one else is allowed to buy it from the farmer. The Mandi effectively became a new/mutated (keeping up with the Covid times ;)) version of Zamindar aka Feudalism. The farmers are still technically slaves of the Mandi.

As per the new law, the farmer has to right to sell the produce to ANYONE, including the Mandi. So, the Mandi can quote the price and if anyone bids a higher price, they can get it. If need be, me as a consumer can buy directly and legally from the farmer.

As for the minimum price protection, the mandi does offer that service and that service will continue as per the current system if you agree to sell to the Mandi. But in many states, the state government offers an insurance were the farmer can enroll in it and if the crop is damaged due to weather or locust (like it happened recently) or failed to get a promised minimum price, the farmer will be compensated.

In the state of Tamil Nadu (couple of relatives are involved in farming there), this insurance/financing is done via the Banks. At each stage, the bank gives money for buying manure & seeds. Basically you can take a loan from the bank to do agriculture and if it fails or you dont get the minimum promised price, the loan is written off. So, the farmer can do the agriculture without spending any money from their own pockets and in case of loss, the bank writes off the loan.

There are similar systems in various states, because of the Mandis there is no competition and the state govt & Mandis and do what they feel like. Now with the new law, the Mandis are facing competition. Basically they opened a protected market to competition.

As you asked, the BJP is pushing to implement this law in an Agrarian country like India is because they know that the majority needs this law and they can use this to get votes in the next election.

Right now the whole protest is from the single state of Punjab where you have the oldest and the richest Mandis. You cannot blame the Mandis for getting upset in damaging their business.

Plus states like Kerala with very low farming and they don't have a mandi system but is ruled by the communist party is just sending their party workers to protest, just because they dont want the BJP to succeed. Their opposition is to the party that is implementing the change and not the law. That is the same case with most of the opposition.

To me, this is like the horse traders protesting when the Automobile came out or the coin-operated telephone people protesting when mobiles came about or like the fossil fuel industry crying about the advent of Solar & renewal energy.

You'll notice that the protestors are mostly from Punjab - the BJP did not win in Punjab, so they don't have much to lose there by helping other farmers at the cost of Punjabi farmers. The previous system was more favorable to Punjab's farmers.

And even if the general populace had a feeling about this, it mostly turned negative after the shameful happenings on 26th January (India's Republic Day, the day the constitution of independent India was applied). These "protesters" carried out a raid similar to the US Capitol attack. And with that, any public support evaporated exactly like in the US

They arrive via whatsapp groups asking members for support and a link. Soon enough the targeted sites end up being downvote/upvote bot parties unless there is strong moderation.

The media in India is muzzled similarly unless you do propaganda. Individuals online are equally bullied, muzzled, and in some cases killed. The country has currently imprisoned a stand up comedian for jokes "he might" make because he is not of the right religion.

Can you help me point out which laws passed have MSP mentioned. I actually read all three laws but couldn't find mentioned of MSP or MSP alternation.

Just want to know is your opinion based on newspaper or news channel or you actually did some research on it. No offense just want to understand.

The current farm laws are teeny tiny step towards that. The current ruling party would oppose them had they been introduced by previous Government.

As with every thread on India here, There are a ton of people who feel strongly about things, Including some Canadian citizens :)

Same here.. if elon/us government/whoever sides with the protesters, then starlink is the solution. If they decide that the farmers are "oposition funded extremists" (or whatever) it isn't.

Basically the only solution is the one that is independent on the government and international corporations... be it ham radio, wifi mesh networks, or some other kind of technology. Obviously all of that is easier in developed nations, where everyone can buy an extra router and a handheld radio for a price of a dinner at a shitty restaurant.

There is nothing racist about the international community raising concerns about violations of basic democratic rights such as free speech and right of assembly.

> I think anytime anything happens to some minority in the the Great USA, us Indians also need to call our MP and ask them to create noise.

I would support Indians doing this. Please raise concerns with your representatives when you see human rights violations in any part of the world and ask them to speak about it in international forums. In the past, India has done a commendable job in helping minorities persecuted by the CCP. Many Tibetian Buddhists were given refuge in India, including Dalai Lama, who fled Tibet in 1959. Contrary to it's history, India is staying mum on contemporary persecution of religious minorities in neighboring countries such as Rohingyas in Myanmar and Uyghurs in China.

I thought they are asking them to write to their Indian reps. If that's not true, then it's outright interference.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25976320.

Seems odd if true. In most countries GST/VAT/Sales Tax is deductible for everyone except the consumer.

Can you please address the issues highlighted by the farmers instead of speculating on where they obtain funding from? In particular how will the passage of the farm bills prevent this practice that you claim exists? As I see it, it would just allow large players to gobble up the competition (ala Jio).

In current case it’s not somewhere in between, it’s just my way or highway kind.

If you understand the nuances, India has many special laws for every community like Muslim, in India there is a Hindu marriage act which has many inconsistency so your point 3 is not correct. All those reforms are targeted at specific community to promote a narrative which follows dictatorial style to follow a specific Hindu way of living (inspired by Nazi, supremacy of Aryans).

India is in a downward spiral on every measure which matters like mal-nourishment, infant mortality , poverty (i.e. HDI), education, economic development, healthcare even before COVID-19. This is made worse by the pandemic. This is not somewhere in between enough research and UN data is available to verify it. Neighbouring countries of India did much better in many parameters.

Current protests of farmers are a result of disrespecting India’s diversity and consensus based approach. If you look at the actual text of the reforms there are two sides and government should have put this text for consultations and than accommodated the changes. They didn’t go through the process, just diluted it and rammed through the reforms taking advantage of pandemic lockdowns.

You can read many accounts how constitutional safeguards were diluted or twisted to pass many so called reforms, this is the reason of widespread prolonged outrage. There might be some vested interest trying to take advantage of this, but that’s due to authoritarian non-consensus based approach.

> It's also true that existing power nexus like these farmer brokers who are spearheading the protest.

No. These protests are organised by the opposition political parties of India through the farm unions they run or are affiliated with, not by brokers. And they are happening to address the legitimate grievances of the farmers.

Farming in India is done by millions of small farmers. That is why the broker system thrives (along with highly regulated market places) as it is easier to deal with brokers than with so many millions of farmers to procure in large-scale. Ofcourse, like in any economic system some people do find ways to abuse the system, but the regulated marketplace do ensure that farmers can get by (not thrive, but barely survive - the current system does need reforms and the farmers have been demanding changes for a long time too).

The new farm laws dismantle this regulated marketplaces, in the guise of "fixing" the broker system, but cleverly replaces them with corporates instead (by advocating and strengthening laws for contract farming in the favour corporate).

This makes the whole thing even more worse for the farmers, as their bargaining powers are further reduced. Many indian farmers are poor and uneducated but the government thinks it's completely ok to let them get into contract farming with corporates without any safety net or support.

This is why the farmers are demanding the repeal of the farm laws.

The government is hamstrung and chooses to be arrogant out of fear of appearing to be "weak" against the opposition, and so doesn't even engage with them. Matters have reached this level because the farm laws were undemocratically pushed through using the government's brute majority, without any proper discussions in public or parliamentary committee or even in Parliament.

In both the US and Europe, contract farming has seen the consolidation of farms under few corporates. Many political parties understandably do not want that to happen in india too.

- 1% of farms operate 70% of world's farmland: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland...

- Contract farming as a means of ushering in corporatisation in agriculture: https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-co...

NDTV, the times group all of the influential media houses oppose the government. So pray tell me which media exactly is controlled by the government?