Social cooling is just as much a phenomena on HN. By its very nature, it’s invisible unless it affects you directly. HN loses plenty of voices it’s never aware of.
Social cooling is just as much a phenomena on HN. By its very nature, it’s invisible unless it affects you directly. HN loses plenty of voices it’s never aware of.
I understand why you wouldn't want to provide any additional details, but it's also hard to take your claims at face value given my own experience. Perhaps you could share examples which do not compromise your own identity?
It's subtle and masked by the "politeness", that's the trick.
Now, we can't totally fix it, the way HN currently works. If I make a point denying your humanity, that post can be downvoted to death, flagged, and I can be banned. But the post is still there, and everyone with showdead on can still see it. So, depending on how sensitive you are to what was said, "fixing" it may not actually be fixing it.
You have your own reasons for deciding what you do. But I'd at least suggest that you give us some kind of hint, so that we can try to make HN better.
Because if not nobody knows what you're referring to, and you could just as well haven't made the comment in the first place.
Why the aggressive tone?
You could activate "showdead" in the settings and watch any thread with controversial/political topics yourself.
That subset of users is not representative of the community, or even close to 10% of it. If I'm wrong about that I'm open to changing my mind, but that would require real data. People's generalizations about HN are unreliable. The unreliability is proportional to the passion and confidence of the pronouncement. Typically, someone has seen a few egregious cases (or even just one) and then makes a generalization from them. The pain of running into egregious comments is real and needs to be taken seriously (and I'm sorry that you don't feel that we do—that really sucks). But the generalization is a non sequitur.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
It even used to be a sport on Twitter for awhile to find the most egregious HN comments that hadn't been moderated yet and then pass them around as examples of things the HN moderators "agree" with (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). But of course we don't. Anyone can look through the moderation comments and if they find even one example of us doing anything other than trying to get people to recognize and respect each other's humanity, I'd like to see it. We've written thousands of emails trying to do the same.
The assumption that we see everything that gets posted here is false (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...), as is the assumption that there's any way to stop anyone from making an account and posting what they choose. It takes time for moderation mechanisms to kick in. That's the way an open forum is, and if you think about it, it's rather amazing that HN isn't dominated by such shit.
The issue that I’ve experienced here isn’t, strictly speaking, a failure of moderation. It’s more an occasional failure of culture. For the most part discussions go very well here, and I see the hard work you do to make that happen. In fact if someone were to ask me to name the best and hardest-working moderators on the internet, you would come to mind first. There are, however, some topics where the tone of the whole discussion—not individual posts, but whole discussions—is toxic to the point where I have to take a HN breather. If you’d like, I can send you examples of these as I see them in the future.
It’s difficult to address this in a framework where the unit of moderation is an individual comment. A more significant challenge, and one that I think isn’t talked about nearly enough, is that the kind of toxicity I sometimes see here is of a subtle (but no less poisonous) sort. I suspect, in fact, that recognition of it might be difficult unless you’ve become attuned to it as a survival mechanism after experiencing it over and over throughout one’s life. I’m not necessarily saying “there’s no way for you to see it unless you already know it,” which would be tricky indeed—but I’m not ruling out the possibility either. In any case my point is that there is a holistic view that gets lost when we dive into the weeds of individual comments, and in my experience at least, the hurt happens at that holistic level.
I hope this is helpful, and does not feel accusatory; I have nothing to accuse you of, and I very much appreciate being able to work these issues out in good faith. Thanks again for all the hard work you do.
That would be great! And thank you for the thoughtful reply.