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Comment by aaomidi | Hacker News Reader

Why do people keep needing proof that big money runs everything.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN. We want thoughtful, information-rich, curious conversation here. This is obviously not that.

Maybe you don't owe big money which runs everything any better, but you definitely owe this community better if you're posting to it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25951489.

edit: deleted, not worth it.

Can't repeat this enough. "Its a big club and you ain't in it" - George Carlin. A lot of people are waking up to the coordination between the Oligarchs. Its hardly a surprise. The politicians, their government lackeys and media are in bed with them nice and comfy only feigning outrage when the system appears threatened.

I love this quote from Carlin:

It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

"Think of how dumb the average American is. And then realize half of them are dumber than that."

The interesting thing about this quote is that there's a decent chance it's wrong. Is there a reason to believe that half the people are below the average? (As opposed to the median.)

Carlin is exposing his own ignorance of statistics with this quote. It's akin to when people criticize the grammar of others whilst making a grammatical mistake.

Mode, median, and mean are all accurately described as averaging techniques. Mean is the most commonly used average, but they are not synonymous.

Well except that outside of mathematics and statistics they quite literally are to the layman

I think it's entirely reasonable to hold laypeople to the standards of what is taught in a typical middle school pre-algebra curriculum.

Median is a form of average. Here is the first definition for average from Merriam-Webster:

> a single value (such as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/average

Have you ever used "average" when you meant median? Carlin is speaking in the vernacular. I've never heard anyone use "average" when they meant median.

I have. When I talk about "the average person," I usually mean median or mode. Otherwise, you end up with hilarious statements like "the average family has 1.88 cars" which does not make logical sense.

Because lord knows, nothing would George Carlin's act funnier than... a better grasp of statistics.

His joke is funny and the point is made. I find it funny that the joke about peoples' intelligence may contain a mistake. Hence my comment.

IQ distribution is symmetrical by design (it's a normal distribution), so he's still right. https://www.123test.com/interpretation-of-an-iq-score/

Also even if that weren't true, "average" isn't necessarily synonymous with "mean". The mean, median, and mode are all types of averages.

Maybe don't be so quick to criticize next time.

I don't know all the particulars of IQ distribution but I do know that it's controversial to say that it accurately measures intelligence. Carlin was talking in vernacular and so I think it's safe to assume he was not necessarily talking about IQ tests.

Even though IQ is designed to be normally distributed do you really think it actually is a normal distribution? It's a lofty goal and I'm sure it gets as close as one can but does this perfectly match up with reality? I have my doubts, hence my claim that there's a decent chance Carlin's comment is wrong.

Yes, median and mode are averages but few people mean those when they say "average". I doubt Carlin was statistically sophisticated enough to use average instead of median. Had he meant the median I think it reasonable to assume he would have said median. Do you commonly say "average" when talking about the mode or median? I doubt it.

Maybe don't be so quick to criticize next time.

Perhaps we could both benefit from this sage advice.

He's making a joke, not supporting his dissertation. He's allowed to be fast and loose with ideas for a laugh, as a professional comedian.

Do you think when he says things like "Takes the cake. Ya know, say 'Boy he really takes the cake'...Where? Where do ya take a cake? to the movies?" That he's exposing his own ignorance of idioms?

Yes, he's making a joke. It's funny and a pithy remark. The point is made. I find it an interesting point because when mocking other peoples' intelligence one ought to make certain they are correct. Sort of how when one criticizes another person's grammar they should make sure they didn't make a grammar mistake too.

In a normal distribution mean = median.

Do you believe intelligence is truly a normal distribution? It's commonly modeled as such but is it actually truly a normal distribution? A normal distribution is a continuous function and the set of people is discrete. It's a great model but...is actually correct?

I made that point on reddit a month ago, and some wag pointed out that since I evidently didn't know IQ scores were a bell curve, it appeared I was in the lower half.

This is funny because a bell curve is a continuous function and the set of people is discrete. The bell curve is a model of the population at large but I have my doubts that it's a perfect model and that it perfectly matches up with reality. I think the commenter may be the lower half!

This is why I hate Carlin's stuff, it's so fitting for the internet tech sites because the main point of it is jeering and sneering at people who aren't you, who aren't woke. George Carlin was a Hollywood film star with a net worth in the millions if not tens of millions. He's on stage, not working a 9-5, getting you to laugh with him at all the "idiots".

It's a big club and he was in it.

I disagree, having a net worth of tens of millions doesn’t make you comparable to an oligarch.

Depending on where you live, if you don’t have 30-70 million in liquid assets, you are middle class (or below).

Oh come on, there is no definition of middle class anywhere that includes someone with $29M in liquid assets.

I just defined it that way, go to Manhattan and you’ll see I am right.

In what place can you have 15 million and be middle class?

Manhattan, NY.

I wasn't comparing Carlin to an Oligarch, I was complaining about the culture of quoting Carlin. If you posted "everyone except me is dumb" you'd get downvoted. If you post Carlin saying "everyone except us is dumb" you get upvoted.

Thats a fair point. I’m mostly just pushing back on the idea that Carlin is a member of the club merely because he was famous and had a few tens of millions.

Haha! Great point! Although, posting on this website odds are you are in the club compared to most of the world :)

I e pathize with the sentiment but theres a categorical difference between comparisons. A first world technical professional compared to a third world subsistence farmer is perhaps similar in wealth disparity. I do not agree the difference in influence in similar.

This is just an ad hominem attack.

We’re better off not living in world where no one can have an opinion unless it’s on a direct, currently lived experience. That’s some identity politics nonsense.

Which hominem do you think I am attacking?

You can have any opinion you like, but if your opinion consists of passing around second hand sneers, it's a crappy low-value opinion. "It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - "haw haw look at all the dumb sleeping people being this new". That's not an opinion, not a valuable commentary, it's just sneering.

Carlin, obviously. You’re attacking him rather than his commentary.

If you think his commentary isn’t useful, insightful, whatever, that’s fine. But basing your critique on his social/financial position is not good form.

It's a big club and he was in it.

When he died his net worth was estimated to be around 10 million, but that came pretty late in life. For a lot of his life he was probably comfortable but far from wealthy.

It sounds conspiratorial to the average person, who isn't all that politicized or interested -- until it gets 'em. When it comes for you, it gets ya (via deplatforming or stock shennanigans or mortgage crisis bailouts or big wars and lies or whatever), and the online mainstream media Zeitgeist seems to support it, you join in on the understanding that big money corrupts and populism is worth a thought or two.

Fitting username :)

Yeah. It's always a conspiracy until it isn't.

Because it's still a problem. More people need to know and understand how the world works, and importantly, how it's working against them! :-)

Yeah, really. Can anyone point to counter-examples?

There are a few -- Glassdoor, and Google reviews let you post bad reviews of businesses even if they have tons of money. That's not to say I disagree that big money runs things, just that it's not 100%.

Entirely anecdote, but I've heard of companies asking all their employees to give them good Glassdoor reviews.

There were stories here on HN (might dig them up) about how Glassdoor blackmails companies with "it would be a shame if your good reputation was ruined by some random bad reviews, eh?" and removes bad reviews for companies that hand over the dough :)

This is definitely a thing. The startup I used to work for did this a ton before they were acquired.

They would even request it during all-staff meetings.

IIRC from recent HN threads, Glassdoor is considered to be completely gamed, and the company is in on it.

See e.g.: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24789865.

I don't know why anyone needs to be told this, at this point, but EVERY review system is being gamed. You can't trust ANY of them.

The article is about Google wiping reviews, and I’ve worked for a company that asked employees to leave good reviews on Glassdoor

Theranos HR posted one good review for every negative one to even out the score.

the tone on glassdoor has shifted a lot since they discovered HR departments and recruiters as their main (only?) client base.

> ... It's also free to claim your employer account. After that, Glassdoor costs $249 to $600 per month depending on how many jobs you want to post and what specific features you want to add (again, the premium service costs more). -- (probably better sources this is just the top google result) https://fitsmallbusiness.com/glassdoor-vs-indeed/

Glassdoor is gamed. I've spoken to some multiple HR people who make fake reviews for their employer to counteract some bad reviews. I wouldn't trust it for smaller companies.

I've been asked by a shitty (billion $ plus) company to write one of these type of unjustified positive reviews, directly after the rest of my devops team had quit and only days before I handed in my own notice. Needless to say I declined.

I've worked at lots of employers who ask current employees for positive Glassdoor reviews shortly after a disgruntled former employee writes a bad review.

I wouldn't trust anything on that site. The positive reviews are written under duress and the negative reviews have an axe to grind.

And then those bad reviews magically disappear just like the 150,000 reviews of the Robinhood app that have disappeared.

Money they also run media, and when things settle down people read NYTimes, listen to NPR, and it slowly eats away at what they've learned until they're right back where they started.

"Well things aren't perfect but they could be far worse, and I'm so happy we have Bill Gates to fighting polio and malaria."

Bingo, this whole fiasco has highlighted it hard (600%+) though. I'll get a lot of hate for this I know.

My issue is why people think it's not working for them too.

Yes there is corruption and fckery in WS. But make no mistake. Those Fckers are also making sure our companies have capital, ensure activity etc.

The trickle down BS doesnt come from govmnt or taxes, it comes from WS. Not NEARLY a percentage of what is deserved, but it does.

The change needs to happen at the bottom, minimum wage, basic living standards, quality of life etc.

then Reddit wouldn't pay attention to assholes on WS who we bailed out.

I think it's because reddit is in a panic. Gamestop is probably trying to make it more representative of the whole rather than pay attention to anything from the past week or so. Those are not from average reviewers. They're from emotional redditors caught up in the moment probably.

Because Big Money spends big money to make people not notice things.

Citadel is a hedge fund that owns Melvin Capital Management.

Melvin is a $GME Short Seller that is predicted to loose BILLIONS due to people taking the free market back.

Citadel owns the app Robinhood.

Robinhood banned the purchase of $GME shares, while selling was still allowed.

How in the world is that NOT market manipulation?

Does Citadel actually own Robinhood? I couldn't find any source on that.

No, Citadel is RH's largest customer.

https://cdn.robinhood.com/assets/robinhood/legal/RHS%20SEC%2...

Citadel also bailed out Melvin to the tune of $2.75bn. https://cointelegraph.com/news/financial-ties-between-robinh...

I think Robinhood sends them the retail order flow. I don't know about ownership. The conflict of interest is the same.

Citadel does not own Robinhood.

> Robinhood banned the purchase of $GME shares, while selling was still allowed

They had no choice. They had run out of capital to execute the orders they were getting.

They allowed people to unwind their existing positions, but not to create new ones. Considering trading was still going on elsewhere, not locking people into their current positions would have been worse.

It's more complicated than that. Jeff Bezos has a lot of money and relatively little political power. You can't just be rich; you also have to be in the right social groups.

If money truly equaled political power, we'd look more like Hong Kong pre-1997 (and arguably pre-2020).

> relatively little political power

He bought a newspaper. I would say he has plenty of political power.

To add to this, he owns the Washington Post, THE paper for DC

TIL it's Washington DC. I assumed it was Washington state, due to Amazon's presence there.

You are not alone.

He also had cities across the country doing cartwheels to get HQ2. He got an entire neighborhood in Arlington VA renamed, got a heliport approved, and other perks.

Being able to advertise to the proles isn’t actually that valuable without a level of coordination that’s beyond bezos.

If you're worth a hundred billion dollars, your Senators will be calling YOU for lunch, no matter who your friends are.

can we please ban centimeter please? this guy is an actual racist

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25954606

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