Hacker News Reader

Comment by mrtksn | Hacker News Reader

See, the problem is that people are doing all this because they believe that it doesn’t matter. These are not idealists or indoctrinated revolutionaries.

No one is going to do anything if it’s not going to bring lulz or cash quickly because nothing matters anyway.

All the anti establishment movement is nihilistic in its core.

These are not Eastern European kids who dream to finish school and go to Western Europe and do something with their lives, these are also not Chinese who dream to go to America for a new life. They are not the American youth from the 60s or the bolsheviks from the pre-soviet era.

On the other hand, some of them must be rich now. Who knows what easily won money could bring.

View on HN

The worst, or maybe the best, part of your post is that you don't realize the American youth from the 60s literally created this generation with their greed and entitlement.

The parent comment was likely talking about the hippies, who are not the same demographic as the one you are referring to.

I think they're pointing out that "the hippies" were a very small % of people their own age with an out-sized popular culture representation that doesn't reflect the sentiments of the rest of that generation.

The counter culture was a minority. Recognizing that is crucial to understanding the current climate.

It just so happens the creative output from those aligned with that culture has dominated more recent generations(Sesame street, Free Willy, Fern Gully, all that). In a sense "they won". But those not on-board are still around, and there is a lot of resentment.

I'm only 36 and while I was raised on this stuff but even so a LOT has changed and "progressed" from when I was a kid. Can you imagine how much has changed for those who lived through the civil rights movement?

> Sesame street, Free Willy, Fern Gully

Off-topic, I know, but I'm trying to understand how you picked these three things as the epitome of culture produced by the counter-culture.

Not OP but it's the grown up subset rather than the Abbie Hoffman set. Hilarious pranks are hilarious but sesame street is more widely and subtly influential.

3 examples of Hippie philosophy packaged as morality stories for children. Not sure offhand what the next items in the series would be.

JTA: I don't mean to use a potentially prejudicial term here, and not clear on the distinction between "hippies" and "60s counterculture" myself.

Do you have any sources for this? I am interested in learning more

> this generation with their greed and entitlement

Don't blame them. They've just adapted to cut throat capitalism. The society they live in has molded them into what they are.

"All the anti establishment movement is nihilistic in its core"

Okay boys, french revolution, american revolutuon, british revolution were all a nihilistic mistake. Time to give up our hard-earned right and go back to being serfs governed by god-emperror.

The establishment shall never be challanged even if it's chopping off heads, tortuning the unbelievers, raping and burning women for witchcraft.

"Who knows what easily won money could bring"

Did you ask this question in 2008?

I am not arguing that the establishment are the goodies, just that the anti establishment don't do it for higher ideals.

They do. This is a way to fight back and make money. Who wouldn't take that opportunity. I highly recommend this open (motivational) letter on WSB https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6omry/an_o...

It's a moving letter, I've read it and I actually agree with the statement but having a personal vendetta isn't exactly an ideal.

Nevertheless, it doesn't really matter if they are idealists or not if it eventually pushes for a change. Woodstock was a for-profit music festival that turned into a cultural icon. As someone else in the comments said, probably Rosa Parks never meant to start a revolution.

When I say they are nihilistic, I don't mean it as an offence. I do agree that "it doesn't matter", the market is not working as a place to invest into promising companies, it's simply a gambling with extra steps and I enjoy watching many classical gamblers being destroyed. I also don't trade any stocks, I don't own any publicly traded stocks.

Rosa Parks was, as I understand it, a carefully planned stunt, which happened to get the media traction necessary. There was another person who did the exact same thing a short time before RP did, but that person was, IIRC, punished and forgotten.

You might have some points to make but you lost me at "All the anti establishment movement is nihilistic in its core."

Sweeping generalities like this are anathema to discourse.

Or they're a starting point. You could respond with agreement or disagreement and an argument.

The larger point I was making with my comment -- which seems to have been insufficiently clear -- was precisely that making extreme statements to trigger deliberately contentious argument is a style of interaction I prefer to avoid. Per the HN rules of conduct, I assumed good faith and interpreted the parent in the most favorable light I could, given it bordered on trolling. What is there to argue? The idea that there's a simple binary split between The Establishment and Nihilists?

> given it bordered on trolling

Really?! I've seen plenty of trolling in my day, and that didn't ring any of my alarm bells.

Is it really that bizarre to you to call anti-establishment /r/wsb gamblers "nihilistic"? The ethos of the subreddit is basically "eh, screw it, let's see what happens" so is it that hard to imagine a subset of members going a little further, to "eh, screw it, none of this matters"?

Do you need a hand? You seem to be on a slippery slope. I've heard this one before - it was a single cannabis cigarette at first, but soon he was out there killing grandmas for drug money.

Idk, it kind of sounds plausible to me. I don't see the Wallstreet bets sub reddit starting a revolution, protests or suddenly running for office to enact change. Do you?

The point is WSB isn't all the anti establishment movement.

And wallstreet bets is the extent of antiestablishment sentiment?

I don't think Rosa Parks meant to start a revolution either.

She was just reacting to what she perceived as unfair.

You are certainly right for many participating in this short squeeze. But collectively this short squeeze is undeniable proof that what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. The hedge funds play by a separate set of rules from the rest of us.

That’s why they believe that it doesn’t matter in first place. I’m not a nihilist but I think they have a point.

As a Long time lurker of the sub, I’m not happy with reddit closing it down.

This thread/discussion is attached to an article about Discord banning one (of multiple, only one got banned) communities and the r/wallstreebtets community going private (moderators limiting access to members who've already joined and blocking outsiders). Since then, the subreddit was opened back up. How did Reddit close it down if it everyone can still access it?

Yep, the sub is back therefore I am no longer unhappy :)

Does it prove that? I tend to agree that it's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the current situation. If anything, I expect most people to argue the opposite - when the price drops again, and some retail traders lose their shirts, there will inevitably be a flood of thinkpieces about how cruel the financial system is for permitting them to lose money on the same terms as a hedge fund.

You mean the folks who are about to walk into the storm thinking it's never going down and lose their bet? Yeah those guys are screwed and they will make wonderful emotional think pieces written by the same corporation who gave a mouthpiece to the hedge funds. The issue is it's a continuation of the equality issues in America so rational behavior may not be in scope for this one.

Surely the retail traders will be able to convince the brokerages to set trading limits when they start to lose their shirts. [0]

[0]: https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/unprecedented-move-td-amer...

I tend to think people's losses will be smaller (as individuals) then everyone seems to think. This is reddit we're talking about, and people using RobinHood. I'm guessing losses for those that didn't get out will be limited to beer money. I think the reason they could squeeze the shorts is because of the size of their army, not the depth of their war chest...

After all, its all about the lulz...

I really do hope that you're right and I'm wrong about this.

me too :-) Guess we'll find out in the next couple of days...

I'm more worried about the retail investors that jumped on the bandwagon too late with their life savings. The ones that got in at the start will be fine or better than fine.

TBH, if people did that....they probably already lost everything on bitcoin back in 2018. There's no shortage of hype for people to fall for. Bandwagoning is a great way to make a small fortune on stocks, if you start with a large fortune.

I think it proves it in the sense that hedge fund do this kind of stuff all the time and no one ever hears about it, because those kinds of money-making strategies are what we expect of them.

Exactly! The bet has been people aren't capable of coordinating in large numbers to take advantage of this so it's not really broken. Now that they are it's officially broken and will be reviewed.

> All the anti establishment movement is nihilistic in its core.

Hoping/imagining that society can do better isn't nihilistic.

"See, the problem is that people are doing all this because they believe that it doesn’t matter. These are not idealists or indoctrinated revolutionaries. No one is going to do anything if it’s not going to bring lulz or cash quickly because nothing matters anyway.

All the anti establishment movement is nihilistic in its core."

I'm so happy we have mrtksn to explain the motives of about 5 million different people.

Thank you so much for enlightening us with your psycho-analysis of all those people.

We will try to be less nihilistic next time boss.

Hey that's my opinion, sue me. You are free to have a different one.

Mmm is this a comment from the 60s, Chinese people don't dream to come to America, we go back to our homeland to make money sorry to burst buble

H-1B stats disagree.

20K Chinese H1B Visas are a drop in the bucket in terms of opportunity. H1Bs are for people looking to make modest living, the real money is back in China. Common thing you hear from many nouveau riche Chinese is how poor the west are, young professional couple pulling 300K household income can barely afford to live nicely after inflation. Of course, that's still a very comfortable life, but western upper middle class is not aspirationally "rich" by Chinese standards anymore.

You will never convince them. It’s the only way they avoid concluding that they are either a) screwed by the system or b) the system which screws.

The point is the demand still vastly exceeds the supply.

I don't say all Chinese are trying to move to a western country, I refer to Chinese people who do so.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com