Hacker News Reader

Comment by wanttocommentt | Hacker News Reader

A lot of the shortcuts I'm using in my IDE(intellij) are including one of the F-keys. I see that most of those keyboards are not having the top row with the F-keys, so I'm wondering how others deal with this? This was also the reason I bought the Logitech Ergo K860, which is so far pretty ok.

View on HN

I have an ErgoDash with no F-keys, and I miss them.

I have two ways to press F5: I can press Fn+5, or I can press 5 and the key below (Y on Dvorak) together. I usually use the latter, since it can be done one-handed, but I would still prefer a real key.

My next keyboard is likely to be something like a Dactyl Manuform, and I don't see the point of _not_ including the F-keys when I'm printing the case myself.

I don't miss dedicated PgUp/PgDown/Home/End keys. I have these as Fn+↑ etc, which is fine -- I mostly use these keys when I'm typing with both hands, whereas the F-keys are often useful in combination with the mouse.

I think with Dactyl Manuform it's also easier to reach the F-keys. After I paid attention I noticed it's very hard to travel to the F-keys without leaving the default position with my other fingers.

I use a split keyboard which not only doesn’t have a row of F-keys, it doesn’t even have a number row; it’s three by six keys on each half.

I use chorded keystrokes for F-keys. I have a layer key (named “Lower”, and located where the ‘Windows’ key is on normal keyboards); hold that down with your left thumb and the middle row of keys on the left split (caps lock -> g, under a qwerty layout) become F1->F6. And the bottom row of keys on the left split (left shift->v) become F7->F12.

I actually find it a whole heap easier to hit those key combinations than trying to find various physical F-keys three rows away from the home row; I think I’d actually set up a macro like this even if I was using a full-sized keyboard; I just find it to be easier.

(although I don’t actually use F7->F12 for anything, normally; that might be a little awkward in terms of finger positioning and I’d think about maybe moving them over to the right side of the split if I used them with any regularity)

I see, thanks for the reply. I think I can't really judge if I never tried it, but I think that adding an additional key to achieve the shortcuts might make it a little bit awkward. A lot of shortcuts I'm using already need three fingers(shift + cmd + some F-Key)

I agree that the usage of the F-Keys is a little bit complicated, especially if you have small fingers.

With QMK firmware you can reduce the number of keys required for actions like you describe. I similarly use some keybinds that are ctrl + super + a letter. I bound a key on my Pinky4 to act as ctrl-super in one, and to also work like a sticky key, so I press it once, release, and then press a letter. A huge comfort upgrade.

If you have a number of key combos you normally use, you just put that in a layer. You could make Mod2 + Home row = shift + cmd + F-keys, Mod3 + Home row = F-keys, Mod4 + Home row = cmd + F-keys, and so on. It would require some work to program the kb and adapt your workflow, but you will thank not having to do those contortions. IMO, a control flow that requires a lot of shortcuts that involve key combos like shift + cmd + F-keys is an ergonomic nightmare, don't adapt your hardware to that.

With layers as mentioned you can have one row as F keys, then another row below it (or another layer) as F keys with shift pressed automatically.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com