How Zynga Uses Ghetto Testing, A/B Testing, Minimum Viable Products | Hacker News Reader

How Zynga Uses Ghetto Testing, A/B Testing, Minimum Viable Products

grattisfaction.com

75 pointsDanielRibeiro20 comments

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This is such a powerful, simple concept.

We've discussed this before on HN:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=539900

And there's a whole forum dedicated to this style of product creation / testing on Tim Ferris' site:

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/vBulletin/forumdisplay.php?s...

Lots of goodies buried in there.

How about 'interest testing' instead.

And, BTW people have been doing this for years. Write up some google ads for nonexistent products and then watch and wait to see what value props and features matter to your test market.

Ghetto testing? That's a terrible name for this...

I think it describes it perfectly, at least based on the usage of ghetto as slang where I grew up (Australia).

Of course, it's not a term to use where political correctness is required.

I really wish "ghetto" -- as a stand-in for ill-conceived, poorly executed, low quality, substandard etc. -- would die.

IMO when people use it, they are introducing the suggestion that these "ghetto" things are what poor blacks or Latinos would do/use. We also have in America (and elsewhere?) the concept of "white trash" which I view as the poor white American analog of "ghetto". It also needs to go.

(Bracing for downvotes)

Ghetto is a portion of the city where minorities live (wikipedia). Nothing about poor, no particular race. So as a euphemism for substandard, I agree it doesn't seem appropriate. A WASP ghetto in New Hampshire might have high standards I suppose.

Your guess about what people are suggesting may also be off the mark. Nothing in the definition regarding race or even Americanism.

On the other hand, if you are right, then what is the problem? You want to reserve the word for other purposes? You have observed a higher standard for public works in ghettos, and believe the appelation is inaccurate?

Your assumption is that when people use it, they are strictly applying the dictionary definition, and not referencing an unwritten but well-understood cultural context; I would disagree with this basis. Indeed, in order to accept that a dictionary definition is even relevant here, we would have to believe that words never change their meaning once defined, or that they only change their meaning when that new definition appears in the dictionary and not apart from that event.

There is, in my opinion, a racial undercurrent to the word and that it is not (merely) a reference to the quality of roads or sidewalks in the ghetto, but to those who live there. That these qualities apply to the people who live there too.

BTW, from Wikipedia's page on "Ghetto":

"A ghetto is a section of a city occupied by a group who live there especially because of social, economic, or legal pressure."

Emphasis mine. Economic pressure, e.g., they can't afford to live elsewhere.

Only on HN can a discussion about business testing be whittled down into a talk on the essence of the word "ghetto." I disagree with you here, but I appreciate that this kind of discussion exists.

I come to HN despite that kind of pedantic degeneration, not because of it. I like intellectual stimulation. But, especially as I get older, I don't like to spend time picking nits. Because the more time/stress I spend on picking nits, it's less I have to spend on slaying dragons, putting money on the table, etc. Opportunity cost. I pick nits when programming because I'm paid to and because often if you don't have a perfect grasp of your nits, your nits fail to work for some mysterious reason. Getting "ghetto" exactly right? Doesn't matter. World continues on essentially precisely the same. :P

(Yes, I'm now going to go Google for nits after this.)

It must be nice to never have to worry if people are obliquely uttering or perpetuating epithets about you or people like you! Strange that you have to go out of your way to discourage other people from expressing that curiosity though...

I take ghetto to mean substandard, unpolished, incomplete, etc... No racial undertone. An overly sensitive, dare I say politically correct and self righteous person, can read offense into anything.

To suggest that Pincus's comment had anything to do with race is your own self-oriented projection.

I had a response written up, but then I realized that your garbage about political correctness and self-righteousness probably means that you are not curious enough to consider the case.

> An overly sensitive, dare I say politically correct and self righteous person, can read offense into anything.

No projection there, right?

No, that's not projection. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)

Projection would be when fear of racism within yourself causes you to project that racism onto innocent language and people.

Well then, I'll just let it stand as plain old garbage.

>> I take ghetto to mean substandard, unpolished, incomplete, etc...

Except that's not what it means. If we're making up definitions then that's a whole different ballgame.

Wikipedia: A ghetto is a section of a city occupied by a group who live there especially because of social, economic, or legal pressure. A ghetto is now described as an overcrowded urban area often associated with a specific ethnic or racial population.

Definitions: 1. A part of a city, esp. a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups. 2. The Jewish quarter in a city: "the Warsaw Ghetto".

I know that in current day society the word isn't always intended on meaning that. It doesn't change the fact that this is what it actually means. And I definitely don't believe Pincus was using it with any sort of racial undertones.

That being said, I still agree with the parents statement and I too wish it would die.

I'm not saying that anyone here used it with racial intent. I'm saying that I believe the word originates from an intent to disparage people who live in ghettos, i.e. certain minorities.

I'm talking about what it what the connotations of something being ghetto are -- especially when I someone is being accused of ghetto behavior.

In some parts of the country, "Aunt Jemima" (and "Canadian", I've heard) are used as slurs against black Americans. The dictionary definition standard would permit this, since Aunt Jemima is only the name of a brand of maple syrup.

The notion that the dictionary defines what is an isn't racist is wrong. Dictionary definitions trail modern usage, they don't lead it.

may I suggest BAM testing?

Bare Ass Minimum. - It works, but just.

Test and iterate is obvious. What's not obvious here is just how early and where: test the idea before you have a project, test on a high-traffic site instead of picking a group of test users to play in a private setting.

I frankly doubt there is a way to know which product will make a viable business or not. If you think about it Google has more data then anyone on what users actually want, and they still create products which fail.

Perhaps if they based their new features on users testing like Zynga, instead of the 20% projects of their employees they might have features that have more market success (keep in mind Google's and Zynga's market are not directly comparable).

Implementation wise, I could see Google doing a "labs ghetto" where some set of white-listed MVPs would go out to small percentage of their user-base.

It's a powerful concept.

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