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Comment by oedmarap | Hacker News Reader

I think naturally occurring psychotropic substances should not be illegal, i.e. don't criminalize plants or nature itself. Plants that contain psilocin and psilocybin, DMT, THC, ibogaine, mescaline, and any other natural compounds should not be illegal.

However, man-made drugs that are chemically derived such as cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, fentanyl, etc. should most certainly be kept on the illegal list.

Why the personal distinction? Because the natural "drugs" are not addictive, they are psychosomatically harmless, they have been found to be extensively therapeutic, and it's nigh impossible to surpass the LD50 and induce a lethal overdose. On the other hand, man-made drugs destroy the body, the mind, have lead to an ongoing opioid crisis, and can easily lead to death.

Just my $0.02

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I understand what you are getting at, but the issue is a lot more nuanced than that. What about a substance like LSD which has no known LD50 and has been proven to be less harmful than other "natural" drugs like alcohol and tobacco? At what point are heroin and cocaine no longer considered plant-derived?

In my opinion the only real solution is full legalization with better education and addiction management.

I would take natural being legal as a great first step.

Totally agree with you on education, and would add research on uses, harm reduction and life saving counter substances.

The cost of current policy is crazy high and laced with harsh judgement not always rational and or warranted.

There has to be easier ways.

Yep, better keep the more addictive, more dangerous drugs illegal, because keeping them illegal totally stops addicts from taking them. Don't worry at all about the fact that not having a safe, clean source of these drugs frequently leads to accidental overdoses, say, because some dingus dealer accidentally stomped on the blow with some fent.

welcome to singapore

Legal heroin won't solve the issue of overdoses. Instead there should be a "replacement" program - proposing different drug to these people, of course on 1 by 1 basis in a special medical facilities. Replacement drug should be cost free (so some clean and carefully selected synthetic low impact drug).

A lot of the overdoses you're seeing these days is because people are receiving drugs contaminated with fentanyl when they're expecting just oxycodone or heroin. The lethal dose of heroin is about 30mg, whereas the lethal dose of fentanyl is 3mg. It does not take much contamination to kill you. A prominent example of a fentanyl death is Mac Miller. Fentanyl has also been found in batches of cocaine and ketamine, and also has caused accidental overdoses that way. Overdoses can also happen when you are used to a relatively impure product and one day receive a much more pure version.

I know addicts, and I know the issues at play here. Do tell me again how legalizing / regulating drugs wouldn't help greatly reduce overdoses.

I support legalization for most of the drugs. To elaborate: 1. All legal drugs will help with contaminated drugs and overdoses. 2. Legal heroin specifically also will help with contaminated drugs and overdoses. 3. Legal heroin is bad on different merits than help with overdosing, simply because it is so extreme and there is almost no way for humans to stop it's use.

Meaning that legal moderate drugs is almost pure benefit with zero drawbacks, while legal extreme drugs has both benefits and drawbacks simultaneously.

I don't think it is that simple. Opium is a natural drug that is harvested directly from a plant. Morphine can be extracted from opium with minimal processing. Not much different than using solvents to extract THC or DMT. Morphine is an essential drug for medicine. Cocaine is also derived from a plant and is medically important. Both of these are legal for medical purposes. Heroin is illegal for medical use in the United States for political reasons, but is used for medical purposes in other countries.

Perhaps for personal use the distinction should be made, but then what of drugs like LSD? Derived through complex chemical processing, but it isn't unlike any of the drugs you support being legal because they come directly from plants.

The point is I don't think generalizations can be made about plants being good and "natural" while chemically derived drugs are bad.

Would you be opposed to selective breeding programs to create more potent strains?

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