Just an anecdote that gasoline is not always available during crises. We did have electricity at home but neighboring buildings and neighborhoods had outages for a week or more.
I'd be happy to pick up a cheap(<$15k) EV for work commutes(range of 30 miles is fine), but it would be supplementing my gas vehicle(hybrid or conventional).
The math may change as gas prices spike over the next year. I think that will really drive EV adoption. Time will tell though. So far, I see EVs appealing to a certain type of consumer(pro-technology and/or affluent).
Just use it to run a generator, they're generally more efficient than the average gas engine anyway. You can use the electricity generated to power your house and charge your car in an emergency.
Also: People coming in with their Ford F-one-million with an umpteen-gallon fuel capacity and hogging all the fuel.
(In most countries so do the ambulances, but the US might be an exception here.)
With that said, many places on the coast have improved a lot by building power lines underground. We never even lost power in the last storm I went through a few years ago.
If you include a battery backup in your system, you can run without grid power.
When I worked at a power monitoring start up we had a demo house that was charging an electric rav4, so it’s possible.
Yeah, that's the actual reason. I've seen someone use a small Honda generator to generate the frequency required to trick the solar generator into going... it's a weird setup because you basically tie in your generator using a breaker, so both generator and solar can be enabled at the same time.
It simplifies the system a lot, because the grid provides "instantaneous" load matching for your house. If the inverter is sourcing more current than your house is sinking, the grid will sink it. If the house is sinking more current than your inverter is sourcing, the grid will source it.
When there's a utility outage, you need something else to provide the load matching. Either a local generator, or a battery is common; but either way, it's a lot more expensive.
I think they need external signals to tell them which mode to operate in.
Maybe the external system sees the frequency and voltage dropping or lower than normal range and decides to disconnect the load from the grid and opens a breaker and tells the inverter to operate in isolated mode.
When the external system sees the utility power is good again it could tell the inverter to shut off, close the breaker to connect the load to the utility, and then the inverter can go back to grid tie. The outage can be very short unless the load is large motors they don’t like the instantaneous change in phase when switching between different sources that are out of sync.
It doesn't help that most car manufacturers use locked battery charging protocols that don't allow you to easily change this process.
AFAIK other car makers in the US use either CCS or ChaDeMo.
In Europe, all car makers (including Tesla) support CCS.
CCS allows DC charging and has support for load balancing, so I assume it could be feasible to create a home CCS charger that directly charges an EV with DC from solar panels.
However, considering how expensive power electronics are, and how difficult it would be to integrate such a charger into an existing solar installation, I have doubts that many people would buy such a charger. Also, I don't really know how CCS works in detail, so I may be totally wrong about this.
In fact, many cabin installations don't even use inverters to convert into AC. They instead use DC appliances. So no, going through AC makes no sense in this scenario.
As for DC voltage levels, that of course is dependent on solar panel configuration and battery cells configurations/packing. Virtually all electric cars have a built in charger with a switching power supply that's already doing the DC voltage conversion. What I was remarking was that there is a lot of duplicate electronics that perform the same function and that a lot of intermediary steps can be eliminated.
That isn't what you would do for anything tied to the grid. This is far more common (economies of scale mean the parts are cheaper). There you would take advantage of AC's ability to change voltage easily to allow the panels to be farther from the rest of the system. You would also want to use the grid as a backup for any system failures in the solar setup.
Eliminating steps isn't always a good idea.
https://news.energysage.com/how-many-panels-do-you-need-for-...
Really. There's a reason Tesla sells solar panels, and it's because they can charge the cars Tesla makes. They can also lower your electric bills (or drop them to zero, or make you money depending on the region you live in), since even the smallest panel array they sell produces more electricity than an average American driver needs per year for an EV.
1: https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/solar-panels/going-sola...
I'll be doing solar panels on our roof when the battery storage tech becomes viable and PG&E start being sensible about individual electricity production.
I currently do it with 12 100w panels. I run ac/dc converters to supplement additional dc from the grid to charge at 1500w, but have a 750w charger for emergencies that will charge directly from the sun with no grid. It does require a small buffer battery to work reliably.
You'd be a lot better off with a jerry can and a $500 gasoline generator....
> CPSC also warns consumers that private storage of more than a limited amount of gasoline (usually five gallons or less) is illegal in many areas, and subsequent fire damage may not be covered by insurance policies.
More recent advice from the API indicates that fire codes usually restrict the storage of more than 25 gallons (~95 L) at home. Many people in rural areas would have orders of magnitude more than that.
So it seems that, in the US at least, it's not illegal all over.
API Source: https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/consumer-information...
These tanks are outside, though they could start the building near them on fire if something happened.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-...
Also it goes off after like 6 months if you are not using it.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/does-fuel-go-off....
Even above 275L, it says you need a license - it doesn't say it's illegal.
Fuel does go off, but if you have reason to store it, you probably have a use for it, so as long as you cycle the fuel, you can store an emergency supply indefinitely.
Its commonly said 'it illegal to possess plutonium', but obviously someone does operate nuclear powerplants, and thise are people with the right licence. Same applies to drugs, explosices, etc.
The question is - are requirements of the lisence realistic for you to meet as an average homeowner?
However, I picked a random Council to see, and it looks extremely doable for a homeowner with the space to do so to get a license to store up to 2,500L. It's not even particularly expensive (£44 pa)
http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/community-and-safety/suffolk-tradi...
If you have lot of open space with sun exposure, true.
For the average small yard, it's easier to buy a 55gal drum of gasoline and a manual pump if you can anticipate the need.
Growing up in hurricane country, it's something some people did. Buy a drum in the summer and store it. If it wasn't needed, just use it up after November (end of hurricane season).
If someone on planning on doing this, make sure to get 'boat' gas or ethanol free gas. Gas containing ethanol is not made to be stored and separates/attracts water.
http://www.lcbamarketing.com/phase_separation_in_ethanol_ble...
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/does-fuel-go-off....
A group of survivors could scavenge a lot of solar panels, bit good luck restarting an oil refinery.
Just keep your car charged between 50% and 80% when you are at home and it should be enough to reach the hospital or a safe place during a blackout.
Plenty of countries don't have that reliable electricity.
Most of the other countries with unreliable electric grid are not very much into the brand new premium electric cars market.
In 2 years living in Canada I experienced 6 blackouts. In 28 years living in Germany I've experienced 3.
Just to make sure, rather than provide any incentives (there are NONE) we're going to introduce extra taxes for EVs to make up for lost fuel excise taxes, which contrary to popular belief doesn't pay for our roads.
I guess the minimalist (by Norwegian standards) yet growing sales numbers in spite of our soaring electricity costs and Zero CO² taxes on ICEs (they're eg 40% in Norway) must be scaring the fossil fuel sponsored politicians (both Libs and Labor alike).
Yep, whiskey tango foxtrot indeed.
Europe is a big place, though. There's a lot of people living in the countryside and with much less reliable utilities compared to urban areas. Power outages do occur here too and they're even frequent in some areas. :)
If the outage is extended, there are plenty of DC fast chargers near enough to me that its unlikely that both me and them would face an extended outage, just like how in a gas car you might have to drive a few gas stations over to find one with power. If I had solar installed, I would be able to recharge during the day if I am somewhat careful in driving as the estimated surplus power for area I have for solar is ~7-20 miles a day.
I don’t think power reliability should be a concern... except for when the big one strikes. But in that case all the freeway overpasses will collapse, so an ICE car won’t help you anyway.
In the Bay Area, it's regularly an occurrence where people in the Santa Cruz Mountains will not have power for 2 days to a week. With little to no notice too.
You come home with a low battery to refill it at home, you might not be able to get very far. Hopefully you just drive with 50+ miles ready all the time.
Unless I someday get to live somewhere with a very substantial solar system, I won't ever be with only an electric car. Grid-delivered electricity isn't reliable enough to bet on.
And consider storms like hurricanes Irma and Maria which left many areas of the Caribbean without power for multiple months.
That said I also remember a hurricane (Harvey?) which shut down refineries, making gasoline scarce. So it's pick your poison.
I lived in SoCal for 24 years and the only major(>3 hours) power outage I remember was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southwest_blackout and IIRC it lasted less than a day. That said, a major seismic event could occur anywhere in CA and cause outages for much longer than that.
PG&E's safety outages are a fact of life of living in California
If they were buying today I'm sure many would recommend some type of electric powerwall to store energy but I'm doubtful in the situations you need it the most it would be there. And the whole point of getting a generator is not to provide you with electricity for the time you lost it for three hours - but for the one in ten year storm that leaves you without power for a week.
Rolling blackouts wouldn't really cause an issue, and when I've experienced blackouts, it's never been a problem. When the power is on, the car would charge back to the limit I set (I usually keep it at 80% charged to preserve the battery, which is still nearly 250 miles of range). When the power is out, it's anyway very rare that I drive hundreds of miles in a day and actually need to charge — and as other posters have mentioned, you could hit up a charging station that isn't in a blackout at that point.
When I owned a gas car, getting below 50%, or even below 25%, was completely normal. So I can see how if you're used to gas cars, it would seem worrying that there might be a blackout: how do you "refill" if you're low? But the truth of electric car ownership, at least in my experience, is you basically never go below 50% charge in daily use. So the idea that you'd likely get stuck at some point because the power went out just isn't really a concern.
IMO assuming you have home charging (either a garage in a house, or if your apartment building offers chargers) — which to be fair is a reasonably big if — electric is much, much more convenient than gas. You never have to stop at a gas station equivalent in your day-to-day life, since you just plug the car in when you get home, like you'd charge a phone overnight. You barely need to do any maintenance, because the moving parts are so simple. And electricity is much cheaper than gas.
For people without access to home charging, I think EVs are currently more annoying than gas cars. But not because of blackouts: it's just because charging to full is considerably slower than filling a tank of gas. If you're not able to have it charge at home while you're asleep, regularly hitting up charging stations and waiting is annoying.
And some people live a block or less from a free charger so no waiting around really.
Maybe.
When I was commuting, my daily driver gas car got 36 MPG. My commute used 0.72 gallons. At $3.55/gallon, the trip cost $2.56 or about 9.9 cents/mile.
At the same time I had a Fiat 500e. The same commute consumed 11kWh.
So the breakeven point (between my two cars) is $0.24/kWh in electric cost.
Looking at my PG&E bill, peak time (4pm-9pm) cost is $0.35/kWh and part-peak (9pm-midnight) is $0.34/kWh. These are winter time prices, they are much higher in the summer (but I only have my current bill handy).
So if I had to ever charge the electric car during peak or part-peak times, it is quite a bit more expensive than gas.
Now, of course, I only charge it at night (PG&E price $0.17/kWh) so it is a bit cheaper. Just need to be careful to set the timer so charging never starts before midnight.
Well that commute includes going up a 2000ft mountain pass so that part drains the battery pretty quick.
I'm sure the Fiat would get better range in flat land, but there isn't much flat land around here.
My EV consumes around 15kW/100km, which by cost is equivalent of around 2 litres per 100km (117MPG)
During COVID lockdowns I was wondering if the national guard would be deployed to gas stations to enforce limits on driving by limiting gas purchases. If we want to just make up scenarios, this is the kind of scenario you could avoid by having an EV with your own solar and backup batteries.
Note that with a gas car, you can't fill it up at home ever, for any reason (unless you have a well and refinery I guess).
Or a drum of gasoline and a hand pump which is very practical. If you live anywhere where outages and natural disaster are a thing, it's good to plan ahead.
I believe the reliability problem is worst in California and is less of a problem in other states and countries. (But offset in part by the large number of charging stations in metro areas, at least in SFBA.)
That said, a replacement doesn't need to be as reliable as its predecessor, it only needs to be reliable enough. Cell phones, for example, will go down a few hours after a power outage, whereas POTS phones were engineered to stay up (and provide power to corded phones) during power outages and weather events. Cell phones are more convenient.
EVs have two nice properties: faster acceleration than gas cars (which some view as a safety feature), and they're cheaper to fuel than gas cars. This can tip the balance in favor of an EV for day-to-day use.
If you are prepping, I think it still makes sense to have at least one conventional gas-powered car. Just make sure to keep the tank at least 3/4s full; gas pumps tend to go down during blackouts.
If you're really prepping, also have a fucking bicycle. You provide the fuel and they're cheap to maintain.
The irony is that the only time it's actually safe to ride a bicycle in an average American city is during a post-apocalyptic event when there are no cars on the road =)
The main difference is that the cell network doesn't power the handset but modern cell phones use so little power than a $50 consumer UPS would recharge a cell phone many times over.
Keeping phone networks up during power outages is very important for public safety.
Personally, PHEV makes a lot more sense to me than full EV. My particular model (Ford C-Max Energi) has pretty low EV only capacity (20ish miles, if you stay under 60 mph and relatively flat), and the battery interferes with cargo space, but if you got the capacity up to about 50 miles, that would do a lot of people's (non-covid) daily commute with a single charge (either overnight at home, or during the day at work; but you wouldn't need both). And when you need to go farther, 500+ miles per tank, 5 minute fillup.
On the US southeastern coast, the big concern is hurricanes. Gas stations are far from 100% dependable in regional emergencies both before and immediately after the event. Electricity tends to only be a problem afterward.
But then so can you and charge your EV with it.
In any case, a typical EV would have about 50KWH of battery; more than enough to power a house for a while. The more EVs there are, the more stored KWH of energy will be around in any area if a blackout happens. Much more useful than oversized SUVs burning up all the remaining fuel in your area while fuel logistics are being disrupted.
For your parents, an EV and vehicle to grid technology could have seen them through those 3 days. More, if you drive it to some fast charging access point in between to top it up for 10$. It's perfect especially for remote setups. Add some solar panels to the mix and you are basically not dependent on the grid.
It has 200kWh battery so that should give even more juice to power a house.
I wouldn't be surprised if some would buy ridiculously oversized EVs just to alleviate that fear.
I think I will always hold onto a reliable ICE car for the rest of my days.