Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes | Hacker News Reader

Bluetooth Attack Can Steal a Tesla Model X in Minutes

wired.com

72 pointsmardiyah53 comments

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This was previously discussed when the article was first written...back in November 2020.

I can't find the link on my phone, will update or reply with it later.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25187170

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25227533

Not to be ignorant, but: So what?

What are they going to do with my car once they have it, Tesla’s notified it’s stolen for when the car phones home and I’m driving off in my new X the insurance company bought me. The same insurance company that now has ALL the data Tesla has about the car and some real mean lawyers going after whoever it was that stole it so they can recoup their money.

Maybe I’m blind, but the risk/reward on stealing a Tesla just isn’t there like stealing fancy cars was back in the 90’s. I know criminals aren’t always the smartest on the block, but even with the dumb ones, why should I care?

You're glossing over the insurance replacement like it's free. It's not. Your replacement Tesla was paid for by everyone else's premiums. The more Teslas that get stolen, the more each Tesla will cost to insure.

I think you’re missing the other piece of the parent’s reply — the fact that Teslas are always tracked, making them easy to find, makes it easier for insurance companies (and cops) to find thieves, and makes theft much less appealing.

Aren't they tracked the whole car, not the parts? Say, the thieves would just scrap then abandon the rest somewhere else.

You can’t just cut a catalytic converter off a Tesla.

Haha. Very punny

Multiple exploits can be used together to greater effect, if they exist.

Professional thieves are stealing expensive luxury cars with sophisticated theft protection like that all the time.

It's only a matter of time until they update their tools and also go after Teslas.

> for when the car phones home

It won't. You are seriously underestimating these gangs.

About the only defense is some aftermarket theft protection/tracking that they don't expect.

Sometimes some of their middlemen shops/drivers get caught that way.

Your probably right, but I’d love to see the data on the successful theft rate of a Tesla car.

I saw some numbers a while back and it's very, very low. The real theft ends up being people stealing the mirrors since those go for some $$ on ebay and the like.

I think would-be car-jackers know stealing a Tesla is pointless. Sure, they could stick it into a shipping container.... but then what? All of the electronics are signed and can be traced, the car as gps and will phone home the moment it leaves the container.

Too much work for too little reward.

> The real theft ends up being people stealing the mirrors since those go for some $$ on ebay and the like.

I had the battery stolen out of my car. Luckily there was a used battery shop just down the street that had just what I needed in stock.

We're talking the 12v battery right? Would be pretty impressive if they lifted the car up and got the high voltage pack out.

Yes, regular starter battery.

What luck!

You probably just bought your stolen battery straight back...

People don't steal cars to keep cars. They steal them to use them in commission of other crimes and then ditched, for joy riding, or for breaking down into parts to sell.

Thus, no one is going to come after these people because they won't be able to find anyone to come after.

There’s a whole lot of information Tesla keeps and stores about these cars. Every data point is one more risk of being caught. If a thief is smart enough to leverage this kind of attack method, they’re not doing it, because they’re smart enough to know the better car for the gig is a 2001 Corolla for almost every reason.

Tesla isn't doing something super unique in phoning the location home. Talking about Toyota a lot of their post 2019 models phone their location home and other data in real-time. This is used for their hybrid models to coach your driving and make you a more economical driver. Disabling the location tracker may not be as hard as you assume as its done on a regular basis by thieves.

Who are you suing? Hooded person? People steal modern cars all the time that have remote unlock. They get in, drive it into a storage crate, and its gone. Efficient and easy process.

https://youtu.be/r61umo5VL98

Mostly they get taken across country borders and broken down into parts. Not a lot of traceability left after that.

Ya, I hear that. But the whole time the car is moving it’s phoning back location data. These thieves would have to be SUPER sophisticated in their attacks and even then, one slip in a very unique theft procedure and the whole operation is compromised entirely by some heavy weight consequences.

I just don’t really see it.

The cellular antennas are in the side mirrors. One hammer, one pair of side cutting pliers.

Like put it in a metal box pulled by a truck?

Faraday cages and fabric...

Haha. “Billy! Gitta roll chicken wire and that there trickle charger. We bout to git ourselves of em Teaslas.”

They can just turn off the internet connection. If that doesn't work then they can just destroy the transmitter/receiver if they are going to part it out anyways.

In my city property crime is not prosecuted. Your insurance company is free to attempt to squeeze blood from a stone but that is not a deterrent to a person with nothing to lose.

What makes you think, in this world of ubiquitous high profile security breaches, that Tesla is capable of making a phone-home system that can't be disabled?

A lot of car manufacturers have real time location data being phoned home so stealing most modern cars has this risk yet thieves still do it and get away with it.

Cut it up and sell the parts? Or tear out the computer and replace it with one from a legit car, or just disable the wireless connection entirely. I think a lot of stolen cars are also shipped overseas where no one is going to be able to recover them.

I would rather not trust a company with my life that has trouble with basic things like security..

This won't work if PIN to drive is enabled. Most Europeans have on enabled since sophisticated attacks like these are prevalent there.

https://www.tesla.com/support/car-safety-security-features#p...

A bit off topic, but wtf is this?

> Will I have access to images captured by the Cabin Camera?

> No. You will not be able to view the images captured by the Cabin Camera as it’s not associated with your VIN and is intended for analysis to continue to improve vehicle safety.

If you buy a Tesla, it's not really your car, but a mass surveillance machine disguised as one.

And your driving behaviour is free data for training the auto pilot. The tech fetishism is actually clear indication of how badly informed people live without critical thinking. And prevailing argument is that there is no alternative future with privacy and regulations on big tech. What a dystopian dream.

The same logic applies to most phones, every voice assistant, and to most cars sold today. Tesla isn't even the first car company to collect all this data. GM did it with OnStar.

GM did it with OnStar.

AFAIK that is location and audio, which while still creepy, is not nearly the same as pointing a camera at you.

The Cabin Camera is disabled by default. It's a manual opt-in.

If it's not associated with the VIN, what is it associated with?

So, what I hear you saying is to try this in the US

You'll also need a time machine because Tesla patched this vulnerability.

The article says the patch is going to take about a month to completely roll out.

And this article was from over 2 months ago...

You need to be within 15 feet of the owners key fob at some point for this to work, so it doesn't seem like a super realistic attack. I think it's pretty rare for a car thief to target a particular person, rather than just stealing a random car on a quiet block.

Really? You don't see cars parked in the driveway? Many people will have their wallet and key sitting on a side table right inside the front door.

Not sure why that seems so rare.

> You need to be within 15 feet of the owners key fob at some point for this to work, so it doesn't seem like a super realistic attack.

1) Look for Tesla parked or parking

2) Either Follow or wait for Tesla owner, distract them long enough to exploit the vulnerability.

3) [No ambiguity this time actually]

4) Profit

There are similar attacks on late model Mercedes' with two way amplification of the signal of the fob and the response from the car. It looks like two pizzaboxes and a laptop.

I just bought a new X. "Passive entry" was disabled by default, and it needs to be enabled for this attack to work. If you enable it, the UI recommends you also enable "PIN to drive", which also defeats this attack.

Wait, who is dumber, the person who steals the Tesla, or the person who buys a stolen Tesla? It's a tracking device on wheels with hardly any valuable moving parts. It doesn't make any sense.

Nobody would buy a stolen Tesla, but lots of people might buy stolen Tesla parts.

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