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Comment by brummm | Hacker News Reader

So this is something I keep asking myself. The largest part of the savings comes from the fact that electricity is much cheaper compared to gasoline on a 100km basis. Now, the reason gasoline is so expensive is the massive amount of taxes charged. However, those taxes directly fund the building and maintenance of the road infrastructure. Currently, EV owners essentially get to ride for free on that infrastructure since they aren't paying gasoline taxes.

Consequently, with more and more people switching over, the amount of taxes available for road maintenace, etc. will decrease and the electricity for driving will have to be taxed much in the same way as gasoline is and thus eliminating the savings early adopters are currently enjoying.

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The federal fuel tax is 18 cents, not exactly massive. (Maybe you aren’t in the US though)

"Federal" try adding all your state/provincial, then local taxes. For me, in BC:

    Provincial motor fuel tax (Metro Vancouver) — 1.75 cents 
    Provincial motor fuel tax (everywhere else in B.C.) — 7.75 cents.
    B.C.'s carbon tax — 8.89 cents.
    The B.C. Transportation Finance Authority tax — 6.75 cents.
    TransLink tax (If you live in Metro Vancouver) — 17 cents, increasing to 18.5 cents on July 1.
    Transit tax (If you live in Victoria) — 5.5 cents.
    Federal excise tax — 10 cents.
    Finally, pay the five per cent Goods and Services Tax on top of the total price.

Adds up to 50% tax ish.

Most Europa pay something near $10 per gallon of gas. Does US taxing so little means their roads are half the cost?

More people own cars in the US -> more gas purchased -> more total tax. Contrary to popular belief, the amount of cars driving over a road doesn't really contribute to how often it has to be repaved/repaired -- a road's wear is almost entirely based on its age. The more cars you have, the less fuel taxes will be to maintain the same amount of road surface.

This means that when EVs become more popular, there'll be clever ways of taxing them too, whether it's an insurance surcharge or an up-front purchase tax or some sort of special "electricity for EVs" tax. This is the honeymoon period when they seem super cheap to drive, but that'll change as they replace fuel-powered cars and someone needs to pay for the roads/infra.

US has 10% more roads tho (probably more lanes too).

However looking at road fuel use US uses something like 5-10x more fuel per year when compared with EU states.

That's kinda insane.

I think you're missing the efficiency aspect. Gasoline carries a much larger amount of energy so having a far more energy efficient, say in my example 26mpg going to 130+mpg saves a lot in energy cost as well.

We do not ride for free. We pay an extra ~$100 a year (formula based on cost of car. I think it should be based on the weight of the vehicle personally. My Model 3 SR+ doesn't weigh any more than a regular gasoline car) for registration here in California which covers the road maintenance so no need to worry there.

How does $100 even compare? Currently in California there is a 79.6 cent tax(18.4 federal + 61.2 state) on a gallon of gasoline (I googled and it came up with a price of $3.36 per gallon. That boils down to a ~24% tax on gasoline. So for spending $416 dollars on gas, you'd be paying $100 of tax. I don't think paying $100 is even remotely enough to make up for the missing revenue.

Further, a fixed fee penalizes people that drive a lot exactly as much as people that barely drive whereas a tax on the consumed quantity, gas or electricity, takes into account how much a person is using the road infrastructure.

Not all of the tax money on gasoline goes directly to road maintenance I would guess, it also goes to environmental cleanup projects I believe. Also, remember that EV's are not as heavy in all cases. My 3 SR+ weighs just 3627 lb

Also note that here in CA if the car costs more the registration fee for the EV is more than $100 so I think that helps make up for the difference as well.

Fair enough. But that revenue would still be missing if everybody would switch to EV and it will have to be made up by taxing electricity used for charging car batteries.

Also, a Toyota Corolla for example only weighs 2,910 to 3,150 lbs according to google.

> Also, a Toyota Corolla for example only weighs 2,910 to 3,150 lbs according to google.

In terms of size, the Model 3 is closer aligned to a Camry than a Corolla. The Camry is ~3300-3600 lbs.

> My Model 3 SR+ doesn't weigh any more than a regular gasoline car.

It absolutely does. The Honda Civic hatchback has 3. cubic feet more cargo room than the Tesla 3 with the seats down (including the frunk) and weighs 600 lb less.

You're not comparing apples to apples between a Model 3 and a Civic. A better comparison is a Model 3 and a BMW 3 series. The former in LR RWD trim weighs in at 3,800 lbs with the latter 328i at 3600 lbs.

It’s a fair comparison; a Civic hatchback isn’t non-comparable for any reason that’s related to its weight.

For any like-for-like car, an electric car is significantly heavier. Look at, e.g. the gasoline Kia Soul (2,800 lb) vs the EV Kia Soul (3,700 lb).

You're looking at non EV specific designed cars. The Kia Soul is a conversion. Look into the Model 3, Model Y, VW ID3, VW ID4, Ford Mustang Mach E or the Chevy Bolt.

I mean, my original comparison was between a Model 3 and Civic, and the complaint was that it wasn’t an apples-to-apples comparison, so I gave an apples-to-apples comparison instead with the same vehicle in gasoline and electric configurations.

None of the cars you listed are under 3,500 lb, meanwhile, many compact gasoline cars are under 3,000 lb, with subcompacts under 2,500 lb. Batteries are heavy.

They aren't as heavy as most might think is my point.

The average midsize car is 3361 lbs and the model 3 SR+ is 3600 lbs so 239 lbs is the difference between the two for an extremely good EV. It is very good to spread this information.

I don’t think a restriction to midsized cars is fair, since you can’t get an electric car that weighs less than the 3,500 lb range. It’s impossible for me to go out and buy an electric car that isn’t a heavy car.

I think you're right that the road tax structure will have to change as we move away from ICE cars, but I think the likelihood of electricity becoming more expensive is every low. Electricity is too ubiquitous, and its price should fall tremendously in the coming years (new solar projects being quoted at 2c/kwh and falling in several parts of the world)

I don't think electricity will increase in price, but electricity used for moving a car will be taxed much like gasoline currently is. So the electricity used at home will stay the same, but the one used in car battery chargers will be a multiple of the price of normal electricity.

The tax just moves over the vehicle registration. In Georgia it was calculated in the tag fee and was about $250.

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