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Comment by brodie | Hacker News Reader

The not owing a drink thing reminds me of the concept of rounds. I guess Americans don’t practice it so much, but in Oz it’s kind of expected that people cycle through buying rounds. And there’s always a sense amongst a group of who’s up next, even across multiple days/nights.

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As an American who only has occasionally bought or received a “round,” your comment reminds me of the strange issues around tipping.

When rounds are not expected, it feels really nice when someone unexpectedly buys everyone a round. Similarly, it feels delightfully magnanimous to buy a round; makes you feel like a King.

I can see how it quickly loses its charm once it’s an expected transaction to honor.

When I visited Taiwan a few years ago I really came to appreciate the tradition of refilling the glass(es) of your companions before your own. Want more tea? Top someone else off first. Same with beer in their comically small glasses.

It’s a much more intimate experience and we formed relationships with people without even being able to speak at a conversational level.

I like your point. However one thing I severely dislike about East Asian meal & drink culture is the implication that drinking alone - simply sipping your drink while enjoying the meal & conversation - means you are not enjoying yourself, and possibly also insulting the host.

This means that every time you want to sip your drink you have to entertain this needless protocol: identify someone around the table - preferably someone you have yet to drink with - say cheers (translation required), and sometimes drink all of the 60 mL cup at once. You should also keep a checklist of who you have and haven't drunk with. The more political, the greater the need to move around the table at random intervals, shake hands, and drink. This is a demonstration often devoid of meaning.

If it's a real party it can be fun to bottoms-up all the drinks. For a more relaxed meal & conversation setting (my preference), as an outsider this is uncomfortable. It ruins the slow enjoyment of expensive alcohol. Why can't I sip my own damn drink with my meal?!

Also as someone who drinks a lot less as I get older, I lately find myself not drinking at all at these events, because there is no middle ground.

It sounds like you have more experience with these things but what you are describing is not consistent with my experience.

It was totally acceptable to sip a drink. If I was empty and needed a refill I would simply take the shared container (650ml beer bottle, tea pot, etc.) and first refill someone or everyone’s drink, empty or not. Essentially the personal containers were bottomless.

I never felt an obligation to refill a specific person’s drink. But that situation never really came up because everyone eventually is the person initiating the refills.

It’s possible I was offending a lot of people. In fact it is likely. They were certainly generous enough to not say so however.

Your comment made me think of this essay “How to Survive as a Woman at a Chinese Banquet” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/opinion/sunday/women-chin...

Yeah, I was definitely hanging out with a different crowd.

I think you overthink the whole thing. I’ve eaten a lot of meals in some of those countries (I live in East-Asia) and I’ve never felt I had to follow such protocol, to the extent they exists at all. The situation may be different in formal setting in China if the internet is to be trusted but besides it really seems like thinking too much after reading a few blogposts. Especially as foreigners we are not bound to every little protocolar details and it would even be strange to be a try-harder.

One thing I've noticed is that it can take just a few 'reserved' people, to make everyone start second guessing themselves. So I think there is some value in having some spaces and gatherings where it's mandatory to be open.

Also here in Aus there is 'shouting' too. I don't know where the term originated from but generally if you've had some sort of stroke of good luck or unexpected fortune then it's your shout, which is basically a free round of drinks on you.

When I used to go to the pub with my cricket team the person who scored the highest that day would shout the group. Or if you'd won big on the poker machines etc then it would be your shout.

That’s definitely a thing here. I just extend that philosophy a bit. If we go out after work and I buy two rounds but you buy one we are still even. I’m not going to keep track and insist you buy first next time. Also “buy a beer” is kind of shorthand for “do a favor”. If I help you set the idle on your motorcycle I never expect compensation.

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