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Comment by biermic | Hacker News Reader

Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable.

In the companies I've worked here in Europe, such discussions just would not happen in a cooperate chat room.

I don't think that has anything to do with being in Europe or not.

The emotions and opinions exist in all workplaces. Some are just open to it and others not. The important part is being respectful and having empathy.

The second employee was arguing in obvious bad faith, that apparently being accepted (to the point of the first being fired) is what should make people uncomfortable.

Agree completely on the important part being respect and empathy. Agree on the second employee’s tone seeming argumentative. However, from the given information it’s not clear if the original (fired) employee remained respectful.

I do feel that in the US, the workplace has a much stronger weight, and often plays a much bigger role in the employee's life. I can see how that could lead to either very explicit work/life separation, or a blurring of the two.

Last week in Europe, I was reprimanded by an US-based C-level exec for using the word "annoying" while asking a question about email filtering in a corporate Slack channel. Can't imagine being still employed if I used the word Nazi there.

People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world.

None can feel safe.

> People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world.

America is large country, half a continent. The existence of people and companies with widely different standards within it should be expected. That does not make it hypocritical.

Also, you treat Nazi as slur, but it is not one. It is political group.

I’m sure words can have separate meanings from their initial one.

When taking a group of hundreds of millions of people with the same trait (such as their nationality), it’s easiest to compartmentalize and expect them all to think the same and behave the same. So when inevitably individuals or subcultures in that group have differences, it’s easiest to call it hypocritical.

I’ve been a European in American companies where saying “I don’t like that VP” in public would raise serious eyebrows, and I’ve been part of other American companies where saying “the VP Product is a fucking idiot” in public would make everyone laugh. It’s not the first time I hear GitHub fancies itself to be a bit edgy in culture, and I’m personally not into it, but it doesn’t make them hypocritical because some other guy you know, and you need to put in the same bucket, is different.

Not only uncomfortable but it’s also somewhat embarrassing. I’ve always thought GitHub would be a pretty good place to work but judging from those chats I think I would definitely avoid.

These kind of discussions happen in many work chats in Europe.

i agree with you.

Yes, we don't take calling anyone "Nazi" lightly. Well, at least level-headed people don't.

It's disrespectful to the people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the real Nazis.

As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I’d much rather be warned that their successors were involved in an ongoing terrorist attack in the immediate vicinity than tiptoe around the issue to avoid making conservatives uncomfortable.

> avoid making conservatives uncomfortable

Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Europe even the most conservative person would still be in favour or public healthcare, pro gun laws and support many things like rent control or minimum wage. If you try to associate conservatism with American far right groups it only shows your own narrow minded "conservative" understanding of the world.

We are discussing a conflict between American employees in a US-based office about an event involving American residents. It should be clear that I’m specifically referring to American conservatives.

Conservative Jews were first vindicated for being Jewish in the 1940s and now the same people are being vindicated by the next ignorant group for being conservative, because people like think it is ok to blame an entire group of people based on personal, religious or political beliefs which do no harm. Conservatism isn’t harmful. Conservative Jews also hate Nazis.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. I’m simply saying that (American) conservatives get uncomfortable if you point out how often they end up standing beside literal neo-Nazis, which you can easily see on display in the comments for this article.

> Conservative Jews also hate Nazis.

Tell that to Stephen Miller.

Also, vindicated means “proven correct”.

Fun fact, in China, conservatism tend to be related to old-school, Mao-era communism, which is probably considered far-far-left extremists in the free world.

The extreme sides actually join together around the back.

Just the reasoning that tends to get a bit muddy - for race/country/flag/god/people. I think the line tends to be when somebody starts mentioning 'the enemy' - and points to some formerly-considered-random guy nearby.

Nice one. Write a whole damn paragraph for a thing that was obvious from context.

As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I'd much rather not see words "Nazi" and "terrorist" used for protesters (or even rioters) whose intentions had nothing to do with extermination, torture, or serious attempts of coup or terrorism (cf. actual terrorist attacks by actual terrorists in Europe).

https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631...

The guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).

This wasn't an exaggeration, a high number of literal neo nazi leaders were present.

Treating them the same as Hitler is literally “crying wolf”. These people are closer to internet trolls then they are to 1930s Nazis.

If Literal Hitler were in the crowd I guarantee there would be people downplaying it like this.

These were quite literal neo-Nazis engaged in a literal terrorist attack. I really don’t understand the hand wringing over describing it accurately.

As a Londoner and European, I’d love to exchange our terrorists (that literally blow up kids, shoot them point blank, and decapitate and drive over people) for US “domestic terrorists” that ... take selfies (yeah a few people died unfortunately, not too surprising for a riot with a massive security failure, but far from a literal terrorist attack).

What’s the minimum body count required for it to be a terrorist attack?

Yes, it wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been. But don’t kid yourself into thinking that their goal was just to take selfies in the Senate chambers. The only reason we didn’t see much more violence is that congresspeople were evacuated in time.

Half the problem is people throwing around words like them and their without qualification. There were thousands of people with different views. Some were neonazis and some were terrorist. We all need to be more careful with our generalizations

I'm willing to bet if it was thousands of Muslims involved in that event, you would not be making this argument.

What do you know about me to make such a specific and personal attack?

About you specifically, nothing. Based on pattern recognition pertaining to news reports and analysis of various events over the last 25 or so years, many analysts who are now excusing and making distinctions between various types of people were the ones who were pointing fingers towards Islamic terrorists as the instigators. This was most evident in the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing.

Balanced perspectives and opinions on Islamic terrorism and domestic terrorism are mindful of making distinctions between militants and other groups. Hypocrisy and partisan sentiments are rampant right now. I think it is that important not to fan the flames

> or US “domestic terrorists” that ... take selfies

Tomp ignoring the churches that get shot up and bombed, the synagogues that get shot up, the mosques that get fire bombed.

I don't object to calling those people terrorists. Note that I also included "shoot kids point blank" in my comment, which was a direct reference to Breivik, inb4 "only muslims can be terrorists"

This is a confusing statement. When you say "there are nazis" when there are nazis (among a bigger group) that is just a factual statement. The disrespect is in not taking the threat seriously.

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