New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar and more ports: analyst
macrumors.com
macrumors.com
It would be nice to be able to have a charging pad for my laptop rather than needing to mess with wires at all.
Speculation time! I wonder if they will be able to put a magsafe wireless charging spot both under the laptop, and on top next to the trackpad! They could let you charge your iphone from your laptop, and charge the laptop via some fancy new magsafe pad.
In fact I wonder if this could include some of the "air power" tech that was reportedly cut a while back?
Apple patented that idea just recently: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/5/22215413/apple-patent-devi...
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2021/01/apple-h...
What would even be the point of something like that? It makes no sense, and would introduce a lot of unneeded complexity and inefficiency.
Wireless charging only really makes sense on the bottom of devices. The value proposition is to give you a place to easily set the thing down and get power. Wireless charging for a laptop would mean the "antenna" is on the bottom of the machine, which you place on a desk-sized charging pad.
Could this be talking about an iPhone 12 style magsafe with a large pad? Not sure how that would work, you'd have to set your computer on top of it to have enough contact area. Couldn't go on the back of the screen (too thick), so I'm not sure where else it would be. And can it do a high enough wattage? A thin connection like the pencil charging along the side of the computer perhaps, but I'm even more skeptical of wattage with that approach, and it'd mean yet another special cable.
It's certainly true that Apple has been on a big magnets kick lately. MagSafe for iPhones, Pencil charging on the iPad, the Magic Keyboard mounting, and the Apple Watch charger all come to mind.
No law of physics requires a cable with a magnet on one end to not be detachable from the brick on the other end. So while I too do not lament that the cable is no longer affixed to the bricks, I would like Apple to make a magsafe cable that is just not attached that is also not shitty (all those third party USBC attachments have terrible weak magnets that can't even hold themselves in place and I believe can cause power delivery problems).
Even if they make this a new cable with USB-C on one end and NewMagSafe on the other, it'd mean buying a whole bunch of new cables if I wanted to actually use it. And I'd need to buy a whole bunch of chargers too, because the ones I have are mainly a single USB-C port and a couple USB-A ports.
If they want to make yet another proprietary charging cable, fine. I don't really care as long as USB-C charging is still supported.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F7BHZLK
I got it half expecting it to be a piece of crap, but I've been really happy with it so far. Mind you, the power source still needs to have a certain output to charge your Macbook, but it's allowed me to use the same USB-C charger that comes with newer Macbooks with my 2015 Macbook.
EDIT: I hope that was what you were picturing. I suppose someone reading my comment could have interpreted it as a magsafe-to-usb-c connector.
Magnetic Thunderbolt3 USB C Adapter 24Pins USB-C Connector, Support PD 100W Quick Charge, 40Gbp/s Data Transfer and 6K@60Hz 4K@60Hz Video Output Compatible for MacBook Pro/Air and More Type C Devices https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0896QK2J5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_...
At this point I don't think the reward is worth the risk. But I am glad to hear that at least some of them aren't terrible.
Bonus points if they make them in a flavor/odor that cats hate. Apple chargers are the only gear my cat has ever chewed on, and I'm not alone in that. I've had to replace 3 cords now. https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+charger+cat+chew
https://www.prestigeimports.net/are-rodents-chewing-the-wiri...
Magsafe is more than neat, it pretty much solved the major annoyance with laptop power cables (e.g. someone trips on cable, and laptop gets jerked around, eventually damaging something).
Apple likes to toot its own horn way to much, but they deserve tons of credit for Magsafe.
I tend to agree that Apple isn't going to retreat on USB-C. That just doesn't make a lot of sense. And whatever minor virtues Magsafe may have, I'm happy when traveling not to have to remember a one-off charger for a laptop. (Which I have forgotten a couple of times.)
And I find the covering of the whole cord tends to deteriorate over time, which isn't strain related.
I was only talking about the MagSafe connector, which was genius. I agree that they made a few very poor decisions in other parts of the charger (specifically: the cable itself).
But I'm 100% in agreement that Apple underdesigned the strain relief on the MagSafe connectors, probably for aesthetic reasons.
I don't have an M1 machine, but the impression I get from people is that "Plug it in overnight at your desk and literally don't worry about its battery running out" is a reasonable thing to do now.
That's a non-solution, since a large majority of the people will use the laptop on their office desk/home desktop, and prefer to have it plugged in while so.
Having more than two things plugged in at a desk is pretty common situation and literally everyone solves it with a surge protector / power strip. So the laptop cord isn’t dangling across the room, it just runs from the power strip under the desk up the wall to the laptop on the desk. Not a situation where MagSafe would do anything for it.
Sometimes you're also on the sofa and need to charge, and so on...
It's been used on Zojirushi kettles since 1982: https://www.zojirushi.com/blog/?p=4147
I do like Magsafe. I always wonder how may plug/unplug cycles the USB-C charging will last. I never worried about magsafe.
The Surface charger is a version of MagSafe that's pretty much immune to that.
Bonus points if the brick incorporates a small hub with additional ports. This would allow you to choose between using a regular USB type C power cable or the proprietary brick with MagSafe built in.
basically anything I own with a lightning or usb micro port gets a magnetic plug (and any usb c device that I dont charge once a day) and becomes an instant magsafe device.
Either they should get rid of it or add it to more products.
Devs can't rely on a touchbar being present since as soon as you plug in an external keyboard it's un-reachable or simply not there for Apple's desktop offerings.
I'd love it if Apple sold an external keyboard with a touchbar, because there are genuine uses for it.
They already brought it back in the sense of reusing the trademark for their snap-on charging.
They might want to expand on the use of the name, plus it's removal has often been lamented by users and in reviews.
The new magsafe might even be similar to the iPhone/iPad tech (e.g. one can imagine it snap to the back of the screen).
though I expect apple to put usb-c port for ordinary people / people who don't like to buy magsafe (I ran over them with my chair several times, resulting in 5 replacements...)
I mean, these features sound like a dream come true, but I'm having a hard time believing them.
https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ming-chi-kuo/
He has a pretty good track record.
Mag safe is going to be on the charging cable and not the computer. Like on old game consoles with wired controllers.
What I could imagine though, is if the charger itself incorporates MagSafe.
A charger cable, that only does PD, could have a magnetic break in it without issues.
However, as opposed to magsafe there's a tiny dongle that stays in the usb-c port. Also, the magnet is weaker than in the old apple magsafes.
I don't remember ever having problems with the charger popping out when it wasn't supposed to. But I also always used it on a desk, rather than sitting it on my lap.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BSorDx
I haven't tried more extensive tests (e.g. video out) but I don't see any real reason why Apple couldn't make a more official (i.e. USB-C certified) version. As the sister comment says, if it's for power only then it is simpler.
I'd imagine rather than adapters like this, you would plug in a cable that has a magnetic joint somewhere near the end that can 'break' if pulled.
Personally I think key with screens on them sounds interesting / novel / fun, at least for a week or two, maybe longer.
And these computers are not purely for power users.
However, it's quite handy when doing multimedia work with applications that integrate with the touchbar (Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro, Photoshop)
I was personally very excited when they announced the touchbar but having lived with it for 5 years now, I hate it. And I do a lot of media work, mostly in Ableton Live but also Adobe Lightroom and others.
I just bought a new Macbook Air and I was very happy that the feature of not having the bar was cheaper as it was something I would have gladly paid money for.
I also use Ableton and Lightroom a reasonable amount (neither are my day job though), and am constantly left wishing that they integrated with the touchbar. I have a midi controller that I use for sliding controls in both when at my desk, but I don't take it when I'm out and about, which is where having the ability to adjust analog controls (sliders/dials) with the touchbar would be incredibly useful.
The hypothetical advantages of that usecase are negated by the lack of physical F-keys, which are critical to start/stop/step through code.
Many times more useful are tactile programmable keys like what I get on an Elgato Stream Deck, or other dedicated hardware. The touch bar is useless since it's one solid strip. Creatives don't like staring at their keyboards either.
I personally never used the F keys for anything so don't really care if they are there or not (I use them just for brightness and mute) but the Touch Bar was too sensitive. And while I initially thought it would be cool to have an extra status display, a display someplace nobody ever looks is pretty useless.
Computers are for more than essays and coding.
So the touch bar might be great for SOME purposes in multimedia, not for others; but a variety of VERY CHEAP peripherals are available for these purposes - no need for a one-size-fits-all integrated approach.
That's a pretty narrow view.
I've been a touch typer for many decades now (had to pass a minimum WPM score on an IBM Selectric to get my journalism degree), and I find the touchbar quite useful.
The problem is that you have to customize it. And the tools Apple supplies are inadequate.
In my case, I have a bunch of "keys" on the touchbar that trigger various macros.
Building a major change for one small set of users ("people who look at the keyboard") isn't how Apple does things.
Zoom, for instance, puts the mic, camera, and share desktop buttons right where f1-f3 should go. If they were actual keys it wouldn't matter, but since they're touch sensitive, I have to suddenly be very conscious of where I rest my hands or else risk sending content I do not want to a meeting.
Now imagine if MagSafe could also be a data channel...
A single iPhone MagSafe charger pushes 15w on a great day. A MBP is going to draw about four times that.
The 14" MBP will be the new 13", so if that rumor is true, it will be the end of Touch Bar.
Well keep in mind that the first generation Arm MacBooks are basically the same old Intel laptops with their guts replaced. The next generation is probably going to be a completely new design.
Now they have to keep that TouchBar code around in AppKit even after they inevitably drop Intel support. Extremely curious decision.
There'd been a drive to remove ports and to make devices as thin as possible, even if it meant losing functionality (no SD slots, USB-A ports, shorter battery life) or increasing complexity (dongles, battery packs).
That seems to be reversing to some degree. Whether this was all Jony Ive or not, it's nice to see more of a balance. It should be possible to have a functional device but not include every I/O port under the sun.
About the sides, i was confused at first but I think the idea is that they will do what they did to the ipad. Compare the first ipad to the ipad pro, the pro lies flat on the table but the first one (and to some extent all ipads before the 2018 pro) has a curved bottom like a boat.
Perhaps the idea is that those who buy the base model - regular consumers - like the touchbar, and those who buy the higher-end versions, that is, professionals - don't.
I'm sure some pricing specialist figured that out. Say what you want about Apple, but their sales department knows how to squeeze as much revenue from their customers as they can.
I can't be the only professional who ordered a cheaper M1 MacBook Air specifically because I want to avoid the TouchBar. If the pricing specialist is playing 4D chess then I don't get it.
The quote from Kuo specifically mentions MagSafe charging connector design, but he could have mistakenly assumed his source was still referring to the wired connector if they mentioned MagSafe.
Curious about changes to I/O ports. I would expect additional (more than two) USB-C ports, but unsure which I/O types may be considered a "standard" need for pro users at this point. Perhaps video output and/or legacy USB?
The touch bar is visually appealing and likely great for most consumers, but the bar has not been as functional as physical function keys during my time touch-typing/ programming due to lack of tactile feedback. I frequently have to look at the bar, else I tap the wrong button. I often trigger the bar unintentionally while hovering over number keys. I am thankful the M1 Pro has an Escape key. I would be very likely to upgrade to a higher end MacBook Pro to have physical function keys again.
I believe modern wireless chargers are around 75% to 85% efficient.
That sounds bad at first, but I believe most ac-dc charging bricks are in the 80% to 90% efficiency range, so it's actually not much worse at all.
And if it really is magsafe, the "secret sauce" there is the magnets will align things almost perfectly every time avoiding unaligned charging coils.
What if the new model had a touch screen?
Not saying this won't come to be, but his actual accuracy where it counts seems much lower than indicated.
His sources isn't some made up contact from within Apple like all those Youtubers, or leaks from China WeiBo and then turn into some news. His sources are from Supply Chain, and if you look at it from that perspective it has been pretty dead accurate.
For Example, most of his Red ( Wrong ) are either Apple Release Date, or Pricing. Both are those are unpredictable by Supply Chain. Apple could change their pricing strategy at any min. But those Release Date and Pricing were derived from possible Production Schedule and Total BOM cost reduction. Both have been insanely accurate.
There are other derived conclusion. Like Longer battery life, which was derived from having lager Battery capacity and better Display energy efficiency, except Apple implemented other features so battery life stays flat.
Things like iPhone having same water resistance, from his point of view none of the water resistance steps had any make over. So no change in water resistance from 2018 were exactly correct. It is just that Apple felt confidence enough the same process could now be advertise with better water resistance capacity. i.e They were too conservative with the iPhone XS water resistance claim.
Not even sure why Pro Display XDR going Mini-LED in 2019 is suggested as wrong either.
Of course there are things he would be wrong. Especially those small volume products. With iPhone you cant really hide, after all there are hundreds of companies working to make sure a product shipping a 100M unit annual volume. Leaks in supply chain are bound to happen.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-15/apple-mac...
Perhaps they’ll make Touch Bar an optional extra.
One of the problem with High Power, USB-C charging is the higher probability of frying the MacBook. As it has been since post 2015 MacBook Pro. From a reliability stand point this isn't any good at all. The insane amount of MacBook Pro with this problem on Louis Rossmann channel
Not all USB-C Cable are capable of charging up to 100W, most are only 28W. You need specific 100W, thicker cable to charge it. Of course HN have no problem with this but majority of people will charge it with whatever USB-C cable they have lying around. i.e Smartphone low power cable.
But HN seems to value charging everything with USB-C over everything else. And seems to take a world view anyone who dont know enough about USB-C cable or do not buy all USB-C High Power Cable as "mis-informed" if I had to word it politely.
>And the sides of this thing are pretty flat and not curved.
He meant the top and the bottom. Currently being slightly curved on the lip and the bottom edge of the machine.
I also prefer the 2015 keyboard, but it's not a dealbreaker.
I'll pay for the kickstarter now if it means it'll come out in the next 18 months. Please make it happen.
Devs running docker with 69 machines are not Apple's customers. Can we just finally understand and move on?
But here, it seems, people are in love with it.
I find my carbon X1 touchpad nicer to use than my 15" macpro.
Although I am impressed how well they made the haptic tap feel like a real button on the mac.
When looking for a new laptop it should be the first thing you check in the reviews - if it doesn't have precision touch drivers it goes in the do not buy list.
Anecdotally, there’s a store near me which arranges laptops by price. I often start at the high end and try the keyboard and mouse, working my way to the low end. Somewhere in the middle it changes over from “this is fine” to “it feels like nails on a chalk board”.
I find it ironic that Apple used to push the one button mice narrative as 2 buttons were overwhelming, yet now you are supposed to contort your fingers into doing a million different gestures on a touch pad.
Non-Apple laptop user: "It's that ridiculous concept of only being able to enter a right click in a specific area of a track pad. Also, can only scroll by swiping on certain parts of the track pad as well"
Mac User: You accept that?
Dedicated touchpad areas for right clicking and scrolling haven't been a thing since Windows introduced precision drivers and gestures. IIRC even most linux DEe have the same features.
At max sensitivity in MacOS you could move so much faster and with less strain on the wrist.
It’s too bad they never adjusted MacOS to compensate for the new massive trackpad, max sensitivity should be higher. It’s like the right hand never told the left what it was doing. But not surprising, considering Apple’s entire organization is built around secrecy and people NOT collaborating.
I haven't used a physical mouse for work in about 5 years, and every time the trackpad gets larger, I'm even less inclined to get a mouse.
If you’re working from the same desk every day, buy a real keyboard and external trackpad/mouse for the sake of your own wrists. Save the built in keyboard for when you actually need the mobility.
I use a dedicated ergo keyboard (Ergodox EZ) 99.9% of the time, and my wrists thank me. But I also have the dedicated space for that.
At the same time having the extra spacer on the laptop as a wrist rest is pretty good, imo ergonomically better than a standard external keyboard (opinion informed by countless physio visits to sort out RSI). Also the built in trackpad is substantially better than moving hand position to an external mouse.
You want to influence the company - get > $200B worth of shares to agree with you and then get a board seat. Anything else won't matter (and even then it won't be easy due to the track record of current management).
Edit: Anyone care to explain what's wrong with the above?
And, honestly, I'm glad with their push for USB-C, no audio jack etc. Most companies are stuck in the status quo due to the chicken-and-egg problem but Apple is willing to be the first mover.
I doubt any Macbook Pro will ever have an M1. I would expect significantly more and faster cores.
EDIT: I'm stupid - there is a shipping M1 MBP today.
I typed this comment with one :)
I'm curious: why did you buy it?
While you’re at it, Apple, just keep High Sierra forever and just do bug fixes and security patches. No new features!
One can only dream.......,
When I moved from my 2014 to my current 16" MBP, I immediately fell in love with the smaller and sleeker new design. Its lighter and has a bigger screen - how are those not improvements?
Well it would be perfect if they could bring that back.
https://twitter.com/USBCGuy/status/1186718432932159488
> No, because per the spec, and current technological limitations, there is no way to do a proper connector and logic board.
> It might be possible some day with active electronics, and special electrooptical couplers. But I haven't seen any yet.
Written by Nathan Kolluru. He and Benson Leung were the two guys who did early through technical reviews of USB C cables, later he joined Google as well as a Hardware Engineer, Technical Program Manager. They gave this presentation recently https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/D1T2-3b%20-%20USB%20... In other words, he actually knows what he is talking about USB C wise, unlike little me :D Interesting writings on USB C hw at https://medium.com/@kolluru.nathan
Edit: please, ffs, stop recommending non specs compliant garbage magnetic connectors. One, you might have very serious ESD issues because now your USB C pins are much more exposed than the normal connector. Two, you might have very serious data integrity issues because those pogo pins do not and can not adhere to the very rigorous specs. I find it absolutely astonishing that people would trust a thousand dollar electronic device on a piece of uncertified cable transmitting 100W and tens of gigabits...
You would then have a cable that was USB C PD on one end and MagSafe on the other. You could carry your USB-MagSafe cable and still use any USB C power source, or bring one with if you like.
It isn't a full USB C with it's score of hair thin wires, but it lets you have some beefy power and ground contacts and enough I/O to chat about voltages, currents, and what color an LED might want to be.
They can pass USB 3 through, but you can't run anything beyond that. No video, no thunderbolt. I've tried several variants of them, they're all the exact same product and they don't work.
Edit to address sibling concern: It's running a TB3 screen, so seems to be working for that...
In that vein, let me say that I have neither the skills nor the equipment to evaluate any of chx's technical concerns. The best I can say is that it seems to do what I want (pass power and TB3 with a magnetic coupling), and there haven't been any symptoms of problems that I've been able to see. Yet. I'm now a little worried, though :|
The 24-pin one here is what I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0896QK2J5
Took them 5 years to go back and restore the old school.
Great to hear a couple iterations ago they restored the keyboard. Now with dropping the touch bar and bringing back mag safe. My 2015 daily driver might see retirement.
Another rumor: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/12/29/apple-researching-keybo...
^ This might be the first iteration setting up for the end state of what will be the long term vision.
Exciting, love seeing them grind out the little (but ambitious) improvements on what most companies would consider ‘perfect as is’ product.
——-
For Apple at this point, I think, getting people to buy a 1100 MacBook + AirMax headphones is better than trying to get them buy not-so-obvious high end $1600 laptop.
And hoped that Apple would release a 'classic' line one day.
I'd view it differently. It took them 5 years for customers to be happy to see nothing more than the most regular and boring update while paying even higher premium on it than before.
In other words, because it took them so long to deliver a regular spec update, customers are now happy to pay higher margin prices.
Did a little research regarding replacing the disk. A more performant drive costs around $120 USD. And the steps too replace it do not seem to tricky.
Magic Keyboard was only introduced in mid 2020. And they are still not as good as MBP 2015 in terms of typing experience.
Magic Keyboard Key Travel - 1mm
MacBook 2015 Key Travel - 1.3mm
Key Spacing as well. They are tiny in Magic Keyboard Layout and it is harder to "sense" the keys apart.
>Took them 5 years to go back and restore the old school.
TrackPad, being too large in Post 2015 models causing much higher false positives ( touching the trackpad and moving the cursor )
On the Good side at least they are listening.
Reminds me of a blog post (via HN of course) that discussed how Apple is hurting itself by being obsessed with making devices smaller (Ugh, can't find the link).
A friend was grilling his boss who was fan boying over a particular iPhone release. Where the device was 10% thinner. In the real world it was a 1mm difference.
That is exactly what I like about it. Typing Feedback!
The comparative overall height of the keyboard modules is more than 0.3mm different, and the new computers are dramatically thinner and lighter than the previous ones. The overall effect is a substantial improvement. I don't use the touchbar too much, but it is a moderate improvement over F keys for me (I appreciate the return of a physical escape key).
Subjectively these two keyboards are pretty similar (I slightly prefer the previous ones). Scissor switches are all pretty mediocre; the shape to fit in a laptop just forces very sharp compromises on the design.
I also think making the key tops larger was a mistake, but it is also a relatively marginal difference in practice. Part of the goal may have been to increase the space available for international legends. (That's why IBM and every other vendor increased desktop-keyboard keytop size and switched from a spherical to cylindrical shape in the 1980s.)
In terms of typing experience alone, I like the Apple laptop keyboards from circa 2002 better than any of the laptop keyboards since. And the Mac Portable keyboard from 1989 is way better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Portable
* * *
Edit: in response to: > TrackPad, being too large in Post 2015 models causing much higher false positives
Let me highly recommend getting a Japanese language keyboard, which looks like this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/da70b0140c8a29...
... and then remapping the letter keys to be wider separated, along the lines of: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/a578960e19e2c9...
Moving your left hand slightly left and your right hand substantially to the right relative to a typical US-ANSI keyboard will keep you from accidentally palm-swiping the trackpad.
The batteries are bottlenecked on FAA limits, not laptop thickness. And in future Mac laptops with ARM chips, cooling is no issue.
passengers may also carry up to two spare larger lithium ion batteries (101-160 Wh) https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=7
100Wh internal battery like the 16” MBPB + 2x160Wh, I don’t see an issue with FAA rules.
Which is what the parents meant. We dont need thicker laptop for bigger battery because we already hit that limit. And with lots of battery improvement coming in the next 5 years they could have made the same 100Whr battery smaller without sacrificing other features.
That is exactly the problem!
There are people who love the butterfly, they seems to prefer the mushy key typing experience. That is fine, but those same people dont hate scissors either.
But there are enough people hate the butterfly keyboard. To the point of hoarding 2015 MacBook Pro. You dont need any Internet forum to judge, we can judge the market by 2nd hand MacBook Pro pricing. There are demand for good quality 2015 MacBook Pro simply because of the keyboard.
The same goes with Trackpad, some people love larger trackpad, but they wont go mad with a smaller one. And then there are people who have palms that couldn't even use the new MacBook Pro.
Basically both of these are the wrong trade offs and compromise.
And both of these design decisions were all post Steve Jobs' making.
They were like hen's teeth when I bought mine second-hand. Daily workhorse.
Give us TACTILE interfaces! I don't want to accidentally push a virtual button just by brushing my hand across a smooth surface.
Honestly, what would actually be pretty cool would be tactile keyboard buttons with screens built into their surfaces. That way you could actually assign visual hints to your function keys, and they could still require tactile presses to use. That will unfortunately probably never happen though, due to manufacturing costs and complexity.
Only took 5-6 years but I am again excited about MacBooks.
I really want this rumor to be true. It would mean that Apple finally got through its phase of trying to appeal to non-professionals -- or professionals with looser ergonomic requirements.
Now I'm gonna swap it once this thing comes out.
Experiences thus far with the MBP16:
- MBP16 has 64GM RAM and can run several IDEs at once, I can compile a project and do other stuff without feeling any lag. It does make the fans come on, which is expected.
- Still stutters on certain games, but it wasn't purchased for that. Kinda surprising though, I maxed out all the options minus the disk size when I bought it.
- The key travel is just right, I think slightly less than the 2015 version but more than my wife's 2018. Goldilocks.
- The Touch Bar is ok, not something I'll miss. I've set it up with BetterTouchTool to have a combination of the open apps and a thing to pull up iTerm2. A minor nuisance is I'll be typing something and I slightly touch the bar, and it pulls up another app.
- It eats battery. With my old set of MacBooks, you could never tell which power adapter it was connected to, because it didn't matter whether it was a slightly lower power. With the 16 it's noticeable. If there wasn't a virus lockdown I'd probably struggle to take it out to a café for a day's work.
- Screen is beautiful as always. They seem to have found a way to reduce the bezel size, because the 2015 and 2020 models look to be pretty much the same size externally. They actually fit nicely one on top of the other when closed.
- Larger trackpad is ok, not killer. Maybe it helps some people's wrists to not have to move all the way to the middle.
Reasons for upgrade:
- Less energy use could make the thing properly mobile
- Should be a noticeable speed increase
- MagSafe makes it feel safer. I have kids, the USB ports seem like they could easily get broken if someone steps on a cable. For now I've got adapters anyway, in order to make use of all my old MagSafe chargers, but it would be nice to have it all the way up to the port.
I suppose it goes to show just how badly Intel has screwed up in recent years -- so much development went into this "Turbo Boost" feature that heats up processors hugely under any sustained workload in a way that no laptop can properly keep up with. In certain cases it could make sense ("my project takes 20 seconds to compile, and then the processor basically shuts off") but I routinely end up pegging the CPU at max for 10s of minutes at a time for huge compilations, and the minute the fans spin up I know that Turbo Boost is about to thermal throttle my CPU into oblivion.
I never thought they'd add more ports again either - I could actually see myself getting one of these.
My macbook has terrible sharp edges that dig into your wrist, the usb-c ports are so close together I cant put 2 plugs in as they hit each other, one of the keys is faulty because its a butterfly model, it has wizz bang touch bar but no physical mic mute button, a few key caps have worn off as they are laser etched rather than double shot, the giant touchpad sometimes zooms while typing at random if my palms hit it in some combination it assumes is a zoom gesture.
Overall his designs are great for the showroom but suck for usability.
So for a good chunk of time Jony Ive had no one to rein him in and the result was minimalism run amok. Not that minimalism is bad but I think you all know what I'm getting at.
1. The two new models are equipped with about 14-inch and 16-inch displays, respectively.
2. In terms of casing design, the new models cancel the curvy design of existing models’ top and bottom parts and adopt a flat-edged form factor design similar to the iPhone 12 .
3. The MagSafe charging connector design is restored.
4. The OLED touch bar is removed, and the physical function buttons are restored.
5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
6. They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles.Not believing that for a second.
In the past I've taken a metal file to these, rounded and smoothen them out.
Lately I found this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073W1RYGJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
to be quite an effective work around.
Touch bar, ports and shallow keyboard is what kept me from buyng Mac for years.
And the ability to set custom apps inside it with iterm, and not have to loose a key on the board itself
I spend most of my time in vi when in terminal, and never had a “I’m missing an escape” ever
It’s quite like 3D Touch in this sense. (But I actually liked 3D Touch, unlike the Touch Bar)
One thing that have helped my tendinitis was getting used to the Ctrl-C shortcut instead of the Esc (both are defaults to enter normal mode).
I'm not using the Touch Bar constantly, even when typing on the built-in keyboard. Discovery is slow because you have to become familiar with which options are available in specific applications and for specific contexts. This is a legitimate problem. Over time I've built up a decent number of uses that I know are there and make life better.
The negativity is unreasonable to me. It would be very interesting to know how much a Touch Bar increases the cost of each MacBook. To me it seems Apple took a section of the keyboard very, very few users used and replaced it with something that probably can be helpful to most users at least some of the time.
Also to be blunt – none of this sounds compelling to me. I know people have different requirements and use-cases, but I find the touchbar is fine, USB-C is great, and I'm not missing any ports. YMMV but I'm extremely skeptical.
Now business types choose Windows laptops for ease of use as it connects directly to the monitor & TV set with the ubiquous HDMI.
Same for USB, a majority of the external USB device sold have USB-A whether Apple likes it or not.
IOW having only USB-C is a PITA for most non-HN users.
To this day I can not figure out why Apple doesn’t sell an external Touch Bar of some kind, for use by the actual professional video editors out there.
To be clear, I’m an amateur at video and I do know there are lots of dedicated tools from scrubber dials to keyboards.
The part I can’t figure out is why Apple has this “pro” tech for which the most obvious and most hyped use-case is video editing, but they don’t sell any version of it a professional video editor could actually use.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/video/hands-review/how-...
The touchbar is neat but almost entirely useless for my workflow. It just takes up space and is honestly the main reason I haven't bought another machine. I love magsafe and would like to see it come back but if it just had USB-C that would be fine.
No touchbar, new apple silicon, more ports (ethernet please!) - i'll be getting one.
If I had to pick between USB-C charging and MagSafe, I'd pick MagSafe for accident prevention. The option to use USB-C or MagSafe charging would be a win for everyone.
That's important for Pro Display XDR users, or Thunderbolt dock users, who only use one cable to plug their Macbook in (power+thunderbolt).
Or, screw it, we end up with a charging only breakway USB-C port.
For maximum trolling they should charge $29.99 for this feature..
And if they move to the iPhone MagSafe charging puck design, I imagine they'll sell those separately.
I guess I should have been clearer to point out that's it's still quite possible to(common?) to buy non-type C devices (you can still buy DE-9 serial devices too), but it's certainly possibly to buy a Type C version of almost anything (external drive/card reader/a lamp...).
Everybody's mileage can vary of course.
Not really. From top of my head I could easily gather > 30 things at my house with the plain old USB A connector (several flash drives, keyboards, mouses, Bluetooth and WiFi adapters, smart card reader, external hdd enclosures, a stack of old laptops, r-pi, headphones, routers, playstation, tv, car diagnostics cables and probably several other things I can't remember). There are USB A connectors in all 3 cars in my family. And probably a dozen more devices with mini/micro USB - dslr camera, couple of tablets and older phones, dashcams, thermal imaging camera, powerbank...
Meanwhile there are exactly 3 devices with usb-c ports - 2 phones and one of several laptops (which also has several usb a ports). The only regular use of USB C for me is charging my phone. Everything else is on USB A or micro USB.
You might have some old legacy devices but that's not what I meant.
This reminds me of the USB transition with the first iMac. There was some angst but it settled down.
But I think most household will be using USB-A, USB-C, HDMI, and possibly lightning for years and years. My sister bought noise-cancelling Bose headphones last year and they still had micro-USB.
It hit me -- hey, solve this latency issue by using wired ethernet. Then I remembered, HEY, I already HAVE an adapter. Chained my apple-multi-port-adapter to my apple usb-to-ethernet adapter. Wait, why are things worse than WiFi? Oh, right, USB type A, probably USB2.0 or whatever. Limited to 93Mbps.
Go to apple store online, order Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter. I've made the mistake of buying a USB-C dock instead of a Thunderbolt dock, won't make that mistake again!
It arrives, it's Thunderbolt 2 so it can't plug into my machine.
Order another one, this time USB-C.
Plus: there is no 16" touch display in the lineup yet, this would be something adding value also to touch apps.
All because Apple couldn't be bothered to either keep more ports in their "PRO" lineup, or at least design and sell a quality dock station for "pro" users that works without those caveats, performance and quality issues, overheating, etc. Apple only makes low-end single or max three ports adapters that aren't capable of doing anything serious. It's just lame that they aren't making a high-end loaded dock station for pro users. I hope they just do it, and they do it without crazy price tag.
I like the multiple use USB-C for also charging. I never charge my two MacBooks (one is a new M1 pro) because they charge when I plug into a monitor.
Plus, with about 20 hour battery life, returning to MagSafe is less important.
I really like the physical escape key and Touch Bar on my new M1 laptop.
For the uninitiated, watch the video of Steve Jobs announcing it at MacWorld San Francisco 2001.
I'd like more ports. But I'm not sold on the idea of going back to an HDMI port, displayport, etc. I'd rather see the world switch everything to USB-C than see Apple go back to one of each port. I'd like to be able to hook up a half dozen monitors, or a half dozen network connections, or a half dozen hard drives, or ... you get the idea.
Also, I hope a decent webcam, and ability to support at least 2 external displays..
But of course, no magsafe, and only 16GB of RAM, so if it's your daily workhorse I can see waiting for the 14" MBP with more RAM and beefier chips.
I hope they fix those.
I like the idea of using repairable components like this because if my mag-charger gets broken by a toddler, the usb-c port is fine and I just get a new one without having to pay $300 to repair the ipad.
I won't miss the the TouchBar.
It will be interesting to see what the new "Mag-Safe" looks like. I doubt that it will be USB C-based, but if it is, I hope it isn't like these stupid "USB C MagSafe" charging cords that are out now.
Properly configured it really speeded my workflows.
It created a dynamically adapting interface that just opened up so many more possibilities.
I've loved the usefulness of it when watching media, quickly opening man pages for the command I'm running. Having a touchbar pet running around when I'm having a bad time
It failed at pretty much all it's use cases - it is not available when the laptop is closed, and it's too far when you're at a desk with external keyboard attached even if you don't go clamshell.
It was the ROKR of the Intel->ARM transition - a stalking horse that showed Apple had to go all-in.
I've reverted to a straight, function-key-icons-only Touch Bar and it's still a problem for me.
I estimate since 2018 — the year I bought this MBP — I've had tens of thousands of irritating inadvertent errors interrupt my flow.
So frustrating. If this ships as described, I'm ordering one on Day 1 and then I'm NEVER going to use this Touch Bar MBP again.
Touch Bar was a stupid idea. It should have been optional, not default. Had it been optional from the start, there's no way it would still be an option, it would be discontinued years ago. Because few people would be ordering a Touch Bar MBP after they tried it for an ownership cycle.
I sent back my pro and replaced it with an M1 mini the moment I realized only one monitor worked.
I will say Logic X makes a Mac worthwhile, but it's like I'm recording on the road.
I'm in the minority here on hn, but I prefer the touch bar over function keys and I don't miss MagSafe at all.
> 5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
I don't think they mean AMD.
2016 still going "strong" after the keyboard replacement in 2019 but I am not going to expect it to last pass 2021...
It’s that they removed the Function Keys!
They should’ve just placed the Touch Bar, above the Function Keys.
USB-C is the one port to rule them all, and is here to stay.
USB-C isn’t there yet.
Apple stuff is basically wireless.
A decent apple system that would be helpful instead of courageous would have: a USB-A port, an HDMI port and a headphone jack. Then go crazy with USB-C, fine.
... We are Apple. Lower your principles and surrender your dollars. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.