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Comment by Vermeulen | Hacker News Reader

I don't understand the fear of Google from FitBit users in these comments. Google has a clear user agreement with how they use your data, including not selling it - and they rely on users trusting them. I'd rather my data be with one of the tech giants than a unprofitable start up

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It isn't just the data people fear. It is the product support, hardware decisions, and lifetime of the product. One, they have been become known for not making great hardware quality (See recent Pixel line issues). Besides Pixel lineup, there have been multiple hardware issues so they are not known for quality. Two, they have been known to screw up hardware features and do their own thing, see Nest lineup. This can be seen as a good thing and as a risk. An example of this is they like to 'beta test' new features on the customer to try to get an edge on the competition. But it can backfire and provide a worse user experience. I am referring to the Pixel 4 with Soli sensor that killed the battery. There have been other instances where they add a new feature on Android or WearOS to only drop support later. Look at the Google Cardboard, dead. Even WearOs they had to rebrand. Third, they are known for dropping support for a product after what 3 years? Just look at https://killedbygoogle.com/ I use to be a huge Google fan in terms of both software and hardware. Their software is still great. But the competition is catching up. So where does that leave Google in the market? I realized that the Android phones from other hardware vendors are a lot more impressive and cheaper. So will I buy a new fitbit after the first 4 I had broke before Google? I don't think I will any time soon until Google's reputation has changed my mind when it comes to hardware.

I agree - I'd be more hopeful for Fitbit with other tech giants (microsoft/apple)

Not selling it doesn't matter to me because the company that I'm afraid of ending up with my data -- ie the company I don't want others to sell their data to -- is Google itself.

You have to ask yourself, why don't we want companies to sell our data in the first place? What's wrong with a third party having it? Its out of fear of them abusing that data. So then you have to ask yourself, what counts as abuse? To me, its any time a company uses the data against me, in order to make me spend money or buy products. This is EXACTLY what Google does with my data. They use it to find out what the best adverts to serve me are, that give the highest likelihood that I will click on them and buy something. Given the amount of garbage adverts they have, I do not trust Google for a second: I've seen plenty of Google and Youtube adverts for outright scams, exploitative garbage like Raid Shadow Legends, have heard reports of malware being served, etc. As long as Google happily serve these adverts on their network (and they don't even respond to reporting the adverts, as plenty of HN submissions have shown), I don't believe they can be trusted, in general and certainly not with my data.

Therefore, I do not want Google to have any data on me and that's why I am against this and other acquisitions.

Besides just the data, its also Googles record for shutting down services they buy and their non-existent customer support.

> To me, its any time a company uses the data against me, in order to make me spend money or buy products.

Genuine question - have you had many experiences where you bought something due to a highly targeted ad and shortly after regretted the purchase?

Not knowingly, in that I don't remember ever clicking on such an advert and then purchasing something. But its impossible to tell if they've primed me to buy something later.

But just because I try to be vigilant and also try to block adverts, doesn't mean that I should be ok with them having my data. Just because they haven't figured out a way to trick me yet doesn't mean they won't later or that they won't become even more egregious later. Besides, its a business model I find unethical, so I want to distance myself from it as much as possible, and them not having data on me is part of that.

Got it. Yeah, I find highly-targeted ads to be creepy as well, and started using ffx with adblock for all browsing. I use Chrome for logged-in web use (gmail, fb, etc).

I don't get relevant ads anymore, but instead I get lowest-common-denominator ads. It's... worse!

I don't like the idea of targeted ads, but the consequence feels pretty minimal I have to say. The worst thing that happens is I buy a product that I turn out not to be happy with / wasn't worth the money?

If regretted purchases were rampant it'd be a problem worth solving, but it doesn't seem to be.

Just some thoughts I've been exploring. I'm not exactly planning on going back to wilfully being tracked.

It’s not really about regretted purchases for me than it is about giving some corporation that power over us. Additionally, the internet has become a cesspool if advertising and google is a huge part of causing that. It’s also that google is serving adverts for scams, malware or just exploitative garbage.

I also feel that while you and I may be doing ok avoiding this stuff, many people don’t including old people and children. That’s not ok. I know that’s off topic here, but the more data google and about us, the less likely it will be that we can protect ourselves or others from this.

There are many cases where Google has used dark patterns to gather data from users. Now, the ToS may mention those cases clearly, but that's not an excuse for the Google's behavior.

Recent examples: Google tracking users per Chrome installation ID [1], Chrome exempting Google sites from user site data setting [2], Chrome experimenting with silently proxying user traffic through their servers [3].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22236106 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24817304 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25337995

I think the concern centers more around Google's horrific customer service and wanton axing of services.

Google doesn't sell personal information in the same way that Amazon doesn't sell cloud computing, and Microsoft doesn't sell software.

Also, Google has the capability to do much more damage with my personal information than most other organizations on earth.

Ultimately, I don't trust them, and I can't opt out of their data collection. (Yes, I've seen their opt-out page. It doesn't stop them from building ad profiles when I browse third party sites, mapping my back yard, discriminating against me with ReCaptcha, mapping my wifi ssid location without my consent, or doing countless other things I'd rather they not do, and that I never gave them permission to do.)

Google = 0 customer service, 0 help. They are an ad agency and a B2B company. Good luck solving any problem as a singular user.

Also enjoy the paperweight when they kill your Google account for whatever random reason (we won't even tell you why and no appeals, have fun!)

Unless there's a guarantee that breaking the user agreement results in a fine that exceeds the money they got by breaking the agreement, the user agreement is mostly worthless.

I agree with this. I was worried about FitBit ever since the Apple Watch came out and decimated FitBit's profits.

But Google acquiring them makes me feel like they'll last a long time, and I won't have to switch ecosystems yet again (I was coming from Microsoft Band).

I would have loved it if FitBit could have remained independent, but basically impossible in today's messed up competitive environment.

"clear" and "user agreement" aren't two words I'd expect to see together. There is always more to the fine print.

I don't understand the fear of Facebook from WhatsApp / Oculus users in these comments. Facebook has a clear user agreement with how they use your data, including not selling it - and they rely on users trusting them. I'd rather my data be with one of the tech giants than a unprofitable start up.

It is true I'd rather my data be with Facebook than a unprofitable startup, which was made clear, so pretty pointless copy and paste

Then you have been proven wrong by history since Facebook went back on their word in both cases meaning you can't trust them or Facebook for that matter to do any better than a startup company profitable or not.

Does anyone trust user agreements anymore? Give it couple years, they'll either renege or it'll turn out that they found a loophole and been screwing everyone all that time.

While you’re right that your data might be safer with Google, the fear or unease is with Google having even _more_ data on people. Too much data in the hands of one company.

This. If you read HN comments, only big tech like Google, Amazon and Facebook are after your data, and every single other company is amazing. I’ve worked at FAANG and small companies, and there’s waaay more shady business at small, struggling companies.

But I do understand that shady stuff at big companies have bigger blast radius, as they have more users, and often more diverse data, but I trust them way more than random startup.

Things change, i thought my Whatsapp data was safe from TheZuck.

This reads like a Google shill wrote it, but if not:

1) the fear of Google owning data is that they will be able to target us more and more. As if our internet behavior data wasn't enough, now they have our biological data.

2) the fact that they don't sell it misses the point because in fact they are the party we don't want the data to get to (along with Facebook et all). And you can bet your ass they'll sell it when they strapped for cash.

3) I would definitely not rather my data he with a tech giant who can map it with all my other data that they currently have.

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