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Comment by glitchc | Hacker News Reader

Good food is expensive and many Americans can’t afford it. Part of the reality is that fresh food is not easily available, expensive and requires a modicum of skill to prepare into a meal.

More Americans are dependent on processed food than ever. Except that processed food has declined in quality and nutritional value over the past few decades, primarily to keep costs under control. There are confounding factors but this is a key driver.

As the world’s reserve currency, the USD does not experience inflation in the same manner as most other countries. Rather than food prices skyrocketing, quality and optionally portions are reduced to compensate for declining purchasing power.

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"Good food is expensive" is a baseless claim I hear all the time. People could eat relatively healthy if they wanted to, but they don't. There are a bunch of reasons, but if I was forced to pick one it's that these big companies engineer their processed food to be addictive. It's insidious.

I mostly agree with what you say, but:

> People could eat relatively healthy if they wanted to, but they don't. [emphasis added]

It's not an issue of want. I've lived in a near food desert. I was in a relatively well-off part of a very poor part of town (many people lived without cars, high unemployment, etc.). The local grocer had god awful meat and produce (produce would spoil in 1-2 days of purchase, meat wasn't much better). To get good food I'd drive sometimes 10+ miles away and get, for the same list price, much better quality meat and vegetables. I wasn't breaking the bank, but I had access to a vehicle and the time to take to go make the purchase (the local grocer was only good, for me, for staples like dried beans, rice, and flour). The others living nearby without a car, or without the time/money to dedicate to that extra trip for groceries had to subsist on what was available locally, which meant often some very poor quality foods (with regard to health outcomes at least).

Otherwise, I agree that good food is not expensive. I saved money and got healthier by spending less on food (chicken breast and ground beef at $2-3/pound, catch on sale days and freeze; rice and beans cost maybe $10/month as a single adult; a few key vegetables and fruits cost $5-10/week).

I sympathize, seriously. "Food deserts" are real, but they're not a conspiracy...it's just capitalism. They're not economically viable in areas where too many people reject "good food" in favor of Big Macs. Food deserts are a symptom of my point: people are choosing (or are addicted to) processed food.

The causation you're indicating is not clear at all to me. You seem to be saying, "Poor people prefer Big Macs therefore that's what they get, and no grocery stores."

But an equally valid observation is that the lack of grocery stores and the presence of fast food and gas stations/corner stores produce an apparent preference without indicating a real preference.

Food deserts doesn't exist in most countries though, it is an American thing. Nowhere else is it hard to go find basic groceries you can use to cook anywhere.

I don't get your point with this comment. bedhead suggested that Big Mac consumption by poor people leads directly to their food desert problem, my comment is that that causal order is not clear. An apparent preference can be created by lack of choice, not by actual choice.

Do people in food deserts prefer Slim Jims from the corner store and Big Macs or does it seem that way because of a lack of choice?

If there was demand for good food people would open shops selling it. It happens all the time in Europe, you see poor people open cheap shops selling basic food in poor areas.

> If there was demand for good food people would open shops selling it.

Markets aren't perfect, contrary to popular belief on HN and other discussion boards. And even if something eventually shows up, it's not going to show up overnight. It still takes capital to pull off, which the locals almost universally lacked (racism is a hell of a thing in the US South) and outsiders have to decide it's worth the gamble for very little gain. How many people want to open a grocery store where 90% of your customers are on food stamps, and if they open it how well stocked will it be? (Based on the one grocery store we had, very poorly.)

the market does its job here in Europe, why not USA? Maybe you should fix your market then.

The key difference is population density. There is a demand, but its too low to be sustainable.

And by the way, you have food deserts in europe (Alps, Balkans). I've never been to Estern Europe but a friend of mine is selling mercs (security detail to be exact) there and i souldn't be surprise if some food desert existed between Crimea and Oural from what i'm told.

Small productor market and product are politically tainted too, so a small percentage of the population won't ever come in. And health shouldn't be about politics.

Do you have a good source for good food is expensive? I've heard this before, but it seems like plenty of "good" food is inexpensive like rice, beans, lentils, eggs, root veges, yogurt, oats and spinach.

There are other contributing factors as well, intrinsically linked to the evolving social/economics dynamics in our society. For example, it's now much more common for families to have two working parents, and thus less time to prepare nutritionally complete food from scratch. So people naturally gravitate toward engineered food which is easier to prepare, but less "good" as food. There are many other similar effects that lead to Americans eating more/poorer food like advertising, school lunches, etc, but the deck is definitely stacked against this world to reverse the obesity epidemic.

That's not really true. Most diets are bad because of the crap they include, not because of expensive for that a person cannot afford. Most people's diets can be improved by simply removing sugar and alcohol!

It is not simply that the USD is the reserve currency; the US has also changed how it measures CPI (to the benefit of the government and detriment of those on social security). This investopedia article is a pretty good summary

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/consumerpriceindex....

What's the data around "many"? How much of this is about accessibility? How much of this is about education? How much is making affordable going to solve the problem enough?

I ask sincerely - but in transparency it does come from a sense that its not as much to do w/ cost as it seems to be from my perspective.

I'm aware there is research on what are referred to as "food deserts" where people who may not have reliable transportation are stuck with corner stores and fast food in their neighborhood. Unfortunately I can't point you toward any studies in particular but the research is out there.

One can be skinny on crappy food and obese on healthy. It is simply calories consumed vs calories spent bar few exceptions. And for increasingly more and more people stuffing themselves have become the only way to "get away from it all".

The big exception to that is when a diet it high in sugar, then you don't need quote so many extra calories to get fat; rather like the typical American sorry

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