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Comment by Closi | Hacker News Reader

The last post on Tesla quality had people stating that real consumers didn’t care about the quality issues and it was mostly car snobs whining about panel gaps.

I expect similar quotes in here about how it’s totally normal for glass to shatter within 2 minutes of delivery.

Before everyone else says it - no Tesla won’t make its own glass - but it will specify it and should be QC testing it. Maybe glass occasionally does the same for other vendors, but this does seem to be another data point in the weekly series of ‘Embarrassing QC issue that gets defended’.

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There are two different issues. Yes QC should be catching this, and perhaps is (this might be one either not sampled or which passed). QC isn't magical, and as I learned from working in the pharma business: "You can't test quality into a product".

This seems from reports to be a more serious QA issue. Incoming materials QC is part of QA and presumably this passed (the automotive glass suppliers are pretty used to making auto glass and most cars don't have this problem). But QA should have reviewed the design so that breaking stresses can't occur. That (lack of proper design review) is the problem, and appears from reports to be chronic through certain parts of the Tesla process.

When I say "certain parts of the process", for example I mean battery fires are pretty rare so presumably that team takes QA seriously (batteries are no joke!). While body defects and failures are rampant and very widely attested. (I believe the big touchscreens also have a lot of problems but as I don't follow it closely I might have just seen an unusual number of complaints.)

So: fixable, thought there doesn't appear to be a culture of addressing these things.

You are absolutely right. To go one step further, in my original post I should have really referred to the total quality system, because this also involves extending back to supplier processes and tolerances.

Sound about right. I know a former model 3 owner. The factory paint job was absolutely terrible. I mean really bad. You could see runs and patching. About two months after getting it he finally acknowledged this and it hurt. Posted a complaint about it on one of the forums and everyone jumped to Tesla’s defence and said he was making a drama out of it.

Eventually all the stupid little QC issues add up. He’s not a Tesla owner now. Bought a Citroen C5 aircross.

My guess is the glass is fine. The panel gaps are probably a symptom of the same problem of general misalignment putting too much strain on the glass.

I would also venture to guess that it is either installation problem or issue with body part.

I think it's not so much that, it's that things like this really do happen to all car manufacturers, but anything Tesla always makes news. Not to say they don't have quality issues — they totally do — but they tend to be overblown because of the massive attention they get.

Part of the reason for Tesla's quality issues getting extra attention is because their brand positioning is very much about how they are superior than the competition and more of a "tech" company than a car company. So for an alleged "tech" company to have equal to or worse quality issues in an old industry, and possibly lagging its competitors in this quality regard, is inviting critics to call Tesla and Elon out as hypocrites.

I am not currently short Tesla and not all criticism against them is fair. My point is more along the lines of "If you make big claims and brag about yourself, the onus is on you to deliver."

Just look at the title of one of the references linked in the article:

> Owner Says Tesla Model 3 Window Shattered By Itself, Accused Of FUD

I'm sure she was short $TSLA ...

> I expect similar quotes in here about how it’s totally normal for glass to shatter within 2 minutes of delivery.

So.. remind me why it’s a problem if people don’t care about panel gaps but do care about windows shattering? How exactly is that inconsistent?

Both are symptoms of poor quality, which is the underlying issue.

But you’re allowed to be ok with one thing of poor quality and be annoyed by a different thing of poor quality.

I’m saying that they aren’t mutually exclusive, and that they are both parts of a total quality system and result from high variation and low manufacturing precision.

Put another way, fridges that are well made don’t have wobbly doors. If you don’t care about wobbly doors, it’s still not a good idea to buy a fridge with wobbly doors - Fridges with wobbly doors tend to be more likely to have other issues than just a wobbly door. If you buy a new fridge from a company that is known to have wobbly doors because of low manufacturing precision, don’t be as surprised when your fridges glass shelves spontaneously shatter - you bought something that had high variation and was manufactured with low accuracy and a poor quality system.

It looks like your expectation was correct; it is amazing how many people in this thread are saying that it is totally normal for glass to spontaneously shatter in vehicles.

Amazing but entirely unsurprising!

I mean a Tesla is still my dream car even considering the obvious quality issues, but I’ll wait until they are more mature at manufacturing before one is my next car.

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