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Comment by verytrivial | Hacker News Reader

It's a bit of a cart before the horse issue, no?

I mean what is the point of obsessing about the security of the messages if you don't value the messages themselves?

Some people[1] clearly value message history far beyond the transfer point to chat itself, and making people choose between being spied upon and not having message history, I think many people will choose trusting that they won't lose their messages.

[1] Myself included. I check with Signal[2] every six months to see if they have a backup option, then switch back to WhatsApp when I see they don't. Phones die. My messages are more important than my phone.

[2] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...

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Signal isn't meant to be a mainstream one-size-fits-all, even tptacek admits as much:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22371316

He actually seemed annoyed that everyone insisted on using it for everything :-)

If you need bulletproof cryptographically verifiable encryption - use Signal.

If one wants to plan dinner, use whatever fits your bill.

(And if in addition to the same supposedly bulletproof encryption as Signal you also want NSA^HGoogle to back up your messages and Facebook to know who you talk to and when so they might better customize their ads^H^H^H your experience you can also use WhatsApp :-)

The downside of that attitude is that if a chat program is only used for what governments consider subversive activities then it will be targeted to be shutdown. It is much better to have a general-purpose, secure chat program that IS mainstream making it more difficult for oppressive regimes to target.

Or we can use a number of different programs for different purposes like I do:

- exchanging passwords? encrypted mail, Signal or something else E2E-encrypted

- work: whatever work says. Mostly slack.

- discussions with friends and family: Telegram

- online shouting competitions: twitter

- showing off: Instagram

- telling Facebook who my friends are and how often I talk to them: WhatsApp ;-)

But this is just annoying. People don't want to juggle more chat apps unless they provide clear value, and for many Signal just isn't very compelling.

- exchanging passwords? Matrix

- work: Matrix

- discussions with friends and family: Matrix

- online shouting competitions: twitter

- showing off: Instagram

Does Matrix support keeping a local log/backup of chat history, like others are discussing in this thread?

Oh worse, just nobody except the around-Hacker-News crowd plus reporters would ever use it.

I don't get why I or anybody should switch to Signal. It's not a good app.

There is still value in being able to securely communicate in the present even if you are not able to maintain a permanently searchable log of all activity.

Yes, but less value. And most would say not enough value.

There's value, that's why some niches migrated to Signal.

But the general population seems to think they are losing features, instead of gaining, that's why they don't migrate/are upset and surprised when they lose history

That's right. I actually have all my conversations on Signal self disappear after a week

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