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Comment by macintux | Hacker News Reader

Trump wanted Pence to violate them constitution and overturn the election. When Pence refused he then went to an angry protest and told them to match the Capitol and fight like hell.

The then refused to deploy the National Guard to protect the Capitol and reportedly was thrilled at the fact that the certification was interrupted by the rioters.

After much pressure he finally put out a weak statement telling the rioters he loved them and they should go home, but the election was still a fraud.

What part of that fails to fall under encouraging an insurrection?

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A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held. Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?), just by occupying a building? How could this have ended with them (or even Trump) in power?

Did you conveniently ignore that some of the folks who broke into the capitol were armed with spears, clubs and firearms, carrying ziptie handcuffs? If the capitol police were not able to secure the escape of the senators and representatives, what do you imagine might have happened when the mob descended upon them?

Did you conveniently ignore the part that the Capitol Police, one of the most well armed and well funded police forces in the US, are either terrible incompetent and couldn't protect one of the most important buildings in the US.

Or did you ignore the videos of them removing barriers, or Trump supporters yelling at people breaking glass to stop, or protestors getting selfies with the guards in the building and tapping them on the shoulder and thanking them for their service?

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but there’s at least one video of protesters violently removing the barriers https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/13469665149...

This is a good list as well https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_ri...

Here's one video: https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930

There was also one on Steve Bannon's War Room too this morning towards the end.

There are multiple ones if you just search of the Capitol police literally waving people in.

oh and here is a video of Trump supporter stopping a vandal:

https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be2...

The links don’t open for me, sorry. I’ve seen the first video judging by the thumbnail; it shows a cop waving to someone offscreen. Other cops maybe? Given that we have plenty of video of police being attacked I’ll need stronger evidence for the “cops waved them through” theory.

Occam's Razor suggests that the cop was gesturing to other cops on the line that they were retreating from their position and falling back. To suggest otherwise strains credulity and would require much more substantial proof.

That sounds plausible. Police do not calmly wave rioters through in one area while their colleagues are getting beat up elsewhere. Once us vs. them mentality settles in it’s game over.

>Steve Bannon's War Room

Oh my, surely an unbiased source. Why not inform us what Alex Jones is saying as well?

None of that is relevant to my point above.

Are you saying their plan was to attack those senators and representatives, in order to gain and keep power? What evidence do you have for this?

Well yes: the point was to delay or prevent certification oof Biden as president, with the aim of keeping Trump in power.

What other reason for the attack do you imagine there was?

Don’t spend much time on parler do you?

No, but I would need to see evidence, not just your opinion that such evidence exists. Same as for electoral fraud.

> Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?)

Trump told them he won the election. He told them it was fraudulently stolen from them. He told them that this could be rectified by interfering in the proceedings. His intent was to take and retain power by remaining president through intimidating congress into refusing to count the electoral college votes. So yes - they were intending to take power. The fact it was based on a made up fantasy with no basis in reality does not alter the intent of either the rabble or Trump who incited them and painted that reality for them.

I have heard this theory stated, but where is the actual evidence that this was the plan and their actions were aligned to that? So far I've only seen people asserting that this was the plan, rather than showing actual evidence linking these things together. It's easy to join dots that don't exist, just as the Trump people seem to have done with electoral fraud.

>A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held

I (obviously) can't know what was in the minds of the folks who broke into the Capitol.

However, multiple news reports detail that a number of the folks arrested were carrying police-restraint style cable ties, firearms and explosives.

Given that both the Vice-president and the Speaker of the House (#2 and #3 in line of succession to the presidency), as well as both houses of Congress were in the Capitol at that moment, it's fair to ask who those folks intended to restrain with those cable ties?

And once they were restrained, what would they do with those restrained people?

Again, I can't say what was in the minds of the folks who attempted to occupy the US Capitol building, but some certainly brought weapons and tools indicating that they wanted to take hostages and possibly harm/kill them.

Do you usually bring molotov cocktails and police-style plastic restraints when you go sightseeing? Out to dinner, maybe? Or even to a protest rally?

While the protestors didn't storm the Capitol or bring tools to restrain people and destroy property, some segment of the rioters/insurrectionists did so.

As I mentioned, taking hostage and murdering the Vice President, the Speaker of the House and perhaps many members of Congress probably wouldn't have destroyed our government, but it certainly could be considered a coup attempt and definitely would be insurrection.

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