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Comment by WoodenChair | Hacker News Reader

It seems like Volkswagen is making some real inroads in the EV market based on that data. Is this correct? What has fueled it—is there a particular model?

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The first two models are the ID.3 hatchback (which has launched in Europe) and the ID.4 SUV (which has been advertised and is available for pre-orders in the US).

Volkswagen has made massive investments in EVs after their diesel emissions cheating scandal. Part of their settlement with the US was that they would spend $2 billion on emissions-free auto infrastructure to offset their diesel emissions. That's where Electrify America (one of the big EV charger networks) came from.

I'm not sure that VW would have jumped into the EV market quite so enthusiastically if the diesel emissions scandal hadn't forced their hand. But now, I guess they figure they're spending billions on all of this EV infrastructure, they might as well try to become one of the leaders in EV sales.

It's not just that, but also some pressure from the EU Commission:

Regulation 2019/631 sets new EU fleet-wide CO2 emission targets are set for the years 2025 and 2030, both for newly registered passenger cars and for newly registered vans.

But: The specific CO2 emission target of a manufacturer will be relaxed if its share of low-emission vehicles registered in a given year exceeds 15% in 2025 and 30-35% in 2030.

More here: https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/regul...

At least in Norway, what fuelled it was simply that Volkswagen is a very popular brand in Norway. Many people preferred to buy an e-Golf or e-Up rather than a Leaf or Zoe even though the range was poorer simply because it came from VW, a brand that they had bought before and found reliable. And of course many people could not afford to buy a Tesla until the Model 3 came along and even now it is one of the more expensive electric cars.

VW has created a huge EV platform. You won't see it as much in the US but in Europe they'll probably unleash 40 models covering every category in the next 2-3 years.

I've tried 5+ times to put a deposit on an ID.4 but their site won't take my deposit (I work in fintech and e-commerce, I tried many times, on different machines, using different cards -- their workflow for AWD models seems to have a reversion).

I know they're tempering their US launch ambitions a bit, but I wonder if they're seeing lower numbers because something's not working with their reservation system.

I'd hope they have some site monitoring in place to find this error and fix it soon, if that's the case :-)

I'm guessing the ID.3, at least that's the one that dominates here in Norway[1].

[1]: https://ofv.no/registreringsstatistikk (select "Desember" and check out the 2020 "Hittil" column)

Volkswagen has majorly invested in EVs. One important model Volkswagen has made is the ID.3 . Similar in size to the golf / rabbit. This is an attainable car I'm interested in buying.

I'm in the UK, I suspect my first electric car (in a couple of years) will be the new Škoda based on the same platform as the ID.3:

https://www.skoda.co.uk/electric-hybrid-cars/enyaq-iv

Still a huge markup on their petrol equivalents, roughly £14k more expensive. Yes you get a few extra bells and whistles and a small grant to help but that difference still has a ways to go

Surely the fuel cost savings would wipe out the price difference within a couple of years? Not sure what the average price of petrol is where you are though.

[Edit[ https://myelectriccar.com.au/calculator/ confirms this at least for a Nissan Leaf running in Australia.

I wondered about that - using this site:

https://www.goultralow.com/journey-cost-savings-calculator/

I reckon we'd save less than £1000 a year changing my wifes Karoq for an electric Enyaq. Possibly more as I suspect she could charge at work.

So not really worth it purely financially.

Surely the fuel cost savings would wipe out the price difference within a couple of years?

Only if you drive a lot. Based on my driving patterns I calculated it would take me a good 10-12 years to make up the difference. Which is a shame because in every other way an electric car would fit my usage pattern perfectly.

I worked out that based on energy prices and my 12,000 miles per year, I would save about £500-700 per year in fuel in an average EV. Important to remember the 14k difference is based on entry level range and there’s still the issues that charging presents

No phone-as-key? I'd pay $14k just for that. It's life changing.

I hope you have phones worth of $14k in your pocket in case you break one. I always keep my Tesla's "CC key" with me as a backup for the phone. Also, the phone is horrible key when you have stuff in the hands or using gloves in the winter.

It's a gimmick.

I definitely would not want to have my phone as a key. I can keep my car key safely attached inside by backpack but I use my phone all the time when walking (taking pictures, OS maps, audiobooks) so its much more likely that I would damage/lose my phone than lose my car key.

According to Consumer Reports, electric cars are now cheaper on a Total Cost of Ownership basis than gas cars.

Your mileage may vary depending on what you select as a comparable and some of your assumptions, but you save a lot of money on fuel and maintenance and need to factor that in. The resale value of your vehicle is also a huge factor.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/owning-an-electric-car-...

For those that are at the bottom end of the market and rely on second hand cars this won’t be the case for a long time.

I lease my car and when looking recently it’s not the case for me either, even when factoring in associated costs. It’s an extra 150 quid a month on sticker price for a roughly equivalent car. Take fuel, tax, servicing reductions out and you are still no where near parity

Battery prices are falling 10-15% a year. Add economies of sale for other parts of an electric car and competition as new electric cars keep coming out in 2 years the difference will be less than 8k when the op plans to buy. My prediction is in less than 5 years electric car sticker prices will be cheaper than petrol cars with the bans on new ice cars coming in the few years after that new model ice cars might actually stop coming out as car manufacturers would not want to spend money on what they wont be allowed to sell.

I'd be more interested if it didn't have what looks like a huge touchscreen in the middle of the dash.

I have a Škoda Kamiq which has a very similar dash design and I'd agree that I preferred the older style approach of having buttons for everything (e.g. heated windscreen).

However, my Kamiq has Apple CarPlay and a 'virtual cockpit' - the latter I thought would be a bit gimmicky but I really like it.

Edit: Did have to take the car back to the dealer because of a software problem when it was ~2 weeks old - which was a first for me... :-|

personally waiting for an affordable VW e-bus, bonus points for pop-top.

ID.3 is already seen around every street corner here, and the ID.4 has just been released and I already saw 4...

Tesla (in the Netherlands) doesnt have the tax incentives anymore because its too expensive, the ID.3 still has that cause its cheaper... So lease car owners choose ID.3 because money.

Yes it’s correct. VW investing very heavily in MEB platform. ID3 is great fun to drive but VW have much to do on software side.

I'm surprise that the new ID3 even has the volume to compete with Tesla at this point. Does this data include other VW electric vehicles like the Golf E or another model we're not too familiar with?

Edit... just to clarify, nothing against the ID3, just pretty surprised VW could have scaled up production so fast even if they're the largest or second largest car company in the world.

> Does this data include other VW electric vehicles

Yes. Volkswagen owns 12 automotive brands: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html

So it includes BEVs from VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda, and Porsche. Scania and MAN also produce heavy electric vehicles like buses and trucks.

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