>You're shaming people for feeling natural human instincts
There are many 'natural' human instincts that are harmful to society and are either strongly discouraged or outlawed (violence, drug abuse, overeating to name a few).
There are many 'natural' human instincts that are harmful to society and are either strongly discouraged or outlawed (violence, drug abuse, overeating to name a few).
You're arguing that we should outlaw something that's vital to human life. Social interaction.
Violence, on the other hand, is clearly not necessary or virtuous.
Isolation is a form of punishment and I hope you're not saying that we all must be punished for the greater good and any dissent is evil. That's borderline cultish.
I will never consider this given the excesses and absolute indefensible failures of the emergency powers introduced in service of the Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/etc. wars. Nothing has been rolled back.
Emergency powers should never be treated as temporary given history.
> Personally, it seems like objections to basic preventive measures, such as wearing a mask, are more rooted in ego and entitlement
This is a diversion to minimize that the "preventive measures" have continuously failed and been extended. "2 weeks to stop the spread" have turned into multiple years. Practically every "enlightened" & "advanced" system of Europe that the US is compared to has failed. The most drastic measures in South America, likewise have failed. We are told to act like countries on the other side of the globe - it's laughably unrealistic and divorced from reality.
Say "it's just temporary" to someone months behind on rent and unemployed. It's shockingly insensitive and paternalistic. Honestly, it's despotic given the protracted, dire circumstances of anyone that's not stably employed.
I don't even oppose mask usage. If masks solved the issue (which clearly they don't), I'd be happy.
> Personally, it seems like objections to basic preventive measures, such as wearing a mask, are more rooted in ego and entitlement.
Entitlement? Entitlement is how to describe every comfy white collar worker that rolls out of bed and hops on Zoom, and then condescendingly and abusively berates everyone else that does not have that privilege.
The TSA. Body Scanners. Removing your shoes (America only; it's the only country out of the 10+ I've flow through that forced you to still remove your shoes. Some people do it in other places out of habit, but no one else actually requires it).
> Entitlement? Entitlement is how to describe every comfy white collar worker that rolls out of bed and hops on Zoom, and then condescendingly and abusively berates everyone else that does not have that privilege
The vast majority of people on here are silicon valley types. They don't understand people are loosing their businesses, their lives, their savings and their minds. They've never been out to the country and seen farms or know people who grow food. They see all republicans as racist and the enemy. It's dissociative, sad and frightening.
> If masks solved the issue (which clearly they don't)
Thank you for having some sense. The numbers are really clear on mask usage. Zero correlation and no better than a coin flip. It has a high social cost too. People are berating others for wearing masks. It's created a new talisman, and ideology and religion. It's causing insane amounts of pollution and textile waste that will further damage our oceans. It's terrifying.
Thank you for saying what you have. I have a comfy job where I can work from home, but I have been in touch with an America and a world that is falling apart, yet also gripped by insane and unreasonable fear. This is a terrible time, for reasons many cannot truly grasp.
Do you have sources? Legitimately interested.
If this were true, why were the lockdowns in China (an unabashedly authoritarian country) temporary? People in Wuhan are going to nightclubs without masks today.
It has been 10 MONTHS!. 10 FUCKING MONTHS. This isn't temporary anymore. There is literally no end in sight. Canada, the UK, and parts of the UK have INCREASED restrictions. Everyone is saying, "Well they didn't lockdown hard enough the first time"
This is morally reprehensible.
You’re being a bit dramatic about this. People can still use zoom, have socially-distanced meetups on their lawn etc. That’s a big difference from isolation.
This is how an abuser talks. "Why do you care so much?"
Say that to the working class person whose livelihood depends on the continuity of public life.
The person months behind on rent and jobless.
Anyone contemplating suicide.
Millions of children deprived of close to a year and counting of in-person education at a crucial point of their development that will never come back.
People horrified to enter a hospital despite needing medical care.
I have not heard of anyone who is ‘scared’ to go to the hospital. I have heard of many hospitals in coastal states being forced to turn away elective procedures due to lack of bed space (from covid cases).
Have you ever stopped to consider that, lockdown or not, people simply aren’t choosing to do the things they used to? There are no restrictions against travel, yet people aren’t taking as many vacations. Most states today have no restrictions on dining, yet restaurant revenues are down by half. The service and hospitality industries were going to take a hit from covid regardless of lockdowns.
So we don’t need mandates?
Sorry but your position contradicts itself and smacks of confirmation bias. If the US government really were systematically corrupt and authoritarian, why would they want to curtail economic activity? They would tell everyone not to worry about COVID and keep driving, eating out, shopping etc to maximize tax revenue and the availability of bribes.
I have read that many people believe outlandish conspiracy theories because humans have trouble accepting the reality that sometimes, bad things simply happen for no rational reason. It is easier for many to believe that a secret government cabal is conspiring to keep people in their homes than to accept that a deadly virus has infected millions of innocents and created massive global inconvenience.
I believe this and I think it applies to all the lockdowns and moral superiority stuff where people are shamed for not following NPIs that don't seem effective.
It's as though the pro-lockdown side can't accept that sometimes tragedy happens and we're relatively powerless to stop it. So, unable to accept that they point fingers to anyone around them. Who must we demonize? Hunt the witch!
They suppose there must be non-compliant people if the lockdowns aren't working. And so they fight the hidden enemy. As though if there's a minority of people not complying, that population wouldn't have been exhausted through infection after a year.
There are multiple countries (in both northern and southern hemisphere, islands and mainlands) that have eliminated community transmission of covid. It is wrong to say we are powerless to stop it. It is indisputable that if you and your family stay home, you will not get COVID. Likewise, common sense dictates that more people will stay home if required to do so by their government.
You are trying to make the argument, absent data, that the economic and social/emotional impacts of 'stay at home' orders are worse than the economic and social/emotional impacts of uncontrolled viral infection and death.
My argument has the proof of vast majority of countries that’ve failed to mitigate spread with high tradeoffs and costs to society.
If Europe ostensibly can’t manage it - how is the US expected, given the elevated opinion of Europe most people on the pro-lockdown side tend to presume?
Where’s the evidence that NPIs are effective?
You want ivory tower detachment and ignorance? Suggest America just “be Australia or China.”
These are anecdotes. You fail to show that the costs of NPIs to society are greater than the cost of uncontrolled spread (ie doing nothing).
Hawaii: The islands of Oahu, Maui, Molokai, Lanai, and Hawaii continue with the state’s pre-travel testing program. Travelers must have their negative test results prior to departing as an alternative to Hawaii’s mandatory 10-day quarantine.
Beginning December 2, Kauai is temporarily pausing participation in this pre-testing program. All incoming trans-pacific and inter-county travelers to Kauai will face a mandatory 10-day quarantine.
https://www.gohawaii.com/travel-requirements
Chicago: Anyone traveling from a state on the Orange list is directed to obtain a negative COVID-19 test result no more than 72 hours prior to arrival in Chicago or quarantine for a 10-day period (or the duration of their time in Chicago, whichever is shorter). Anyone traveling from a state on the Red list must quarantine for a 10-day period or the duration of their time in Chicago, whichever is shorter. The Order is subject to the limited exemptions outlined in the ‘Exemptions tab’.
https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/sites/covid-19/home/emergenc...
Massachusetts: All visitors entering Massachusetts, including returning residents, who do not meet an exemption, are required to:
Complete the Massachusetts Travel Form prior to arrival, unless you are visiting from a lower-risk state designated by the Department of Public Health. Quarantine for 10 days or produce a negative COVID-19 test result that has been administered up to 72-hours prior to your arrival in Massachusetts. If your COVID-19 test result has not been received prior to arrival, visitors, and residents must quarantine until they receive a negative test result.
Failure to comply may result in a $500 fine per day.
If you don’t get a ticket, does that mean that no speed restrictions exist?
Excuse me, I was traveling for business. I complied with the regulations exactly as they are written.
You can complain about people ‘not following the rules’ all you want but it changes nothing. There are no meaningful travel restrictions enforced anywhere on the US mainland. Without enforcement, Americans do not and will not follow them.
Hawaii is the only state with actual enforcement and compliance.