Jack Ma's disappearing act fuels speculation about billionaire's whereabouts | Hacker News Reader

Jack Ma's disappearing act fuels speculation about billionaire's whereabouts

reuters.com

113 pointssmaili51 comments

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https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25627043

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25636045

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25627398

Mostly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25629774 too.

A bit older but related: "China: The Disappearing Millionaires"

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/083456-000-A/china-the-disappe...

Currently discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25629774

Allow me to predict the future: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/25/fan-bingbing-c...

You should de-amp your URLs:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/25/fan-bingbing-c...

I should (and done).

Of all the China disappearing acts, the one that still blows me away the most was what happened to the panchen lama: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedhun_Choekyi_Nyima

Wow just read up on that. Depressing that they would kidnap a 6 year old - no limits to what the CCP won't do I guess.

I remember a while back there were a number of stories about Chinese government officials embezzling money and then fleeing the country suddenly over night.

At that time that seemed pretty brazen, but perhaps those folks are more aware of how often random people who displease the powers that be may be disappeared or used as an example... and they knew that if there was any risk it was time to get out of town.

This is far from the only example of business people, even local celebs disappearing for a time.

> I remember a while back there were a number of stories about Chinese government officials embezzling money and then fleeing the country suddenly over night. At that time that seemed pretty brazen, but perhaps those folks are more aware of how often random people who displease the powers that be may be disappeared or used as an example... and they knew that if there was any risk it was time to get out of town. This is far from the only example of business people, even local celebs disappearing for a time.

Unless you can buy/obtain citizenship from somewhere else, that only gets you so far. Eventually China will get you back on Chinese soil. You're going to need a passport renewal eventually.

China is widely known for pursuing dissidents outside its borders and is not above kidnapping. They also have the political leverage to make Khashoggi-like incidents go away.

IIRC at the time a lot of countries these officials ran to were actually providing them with citizenship or some level of permanent residency. The Chinese government wasn't happy about it but as they also weren't likely to hand anyone over to their home country it was mostly a stalemate.

Not sure how frequent that is now.

The "Khashoggi-like" examples area always mentioned in these situations but I think those events are much more rare than people seem to imagine....

This level of government intervention, censorship and alleged intimidation should be a warning to world-class talent and entrepreneurs who might be attracted to China.

I really doubt something bad will happen to him even if he is under CCP custody. CCP can't be that stupid that they let a successful entrepreneur with an amazing story and global appeal go missing.

Because if he really disappears it will cause talent drain like anything, which will be just stupid to the ambitions CCP has for PRC.

There are two key areas of focus for the Chinese government, there's growing the power of their country as a whole, and there's maintaining the party's power over the country. Take a look at Hongkong - is it a smart move for China to destroy one of its wealthiest, most powerful international cities? No. But it is vital to China's second goal - to maintain absolute control over the country.

So far it's been pretty clear cut the first goal hasn't been too badly impacted by their second goal.

The Hong Kong episode might not upset people in PRC as they are being brought under same laws as people in PRC. Top entrepreneurs/researchers/engineers can buy HK activists being malicious or they can be just indifferent to them as that is not their problem.

But this will be as this is a lot more relatable.

Also, the value of HK for PRC has reduced over time so PRC could afford to do it now.

My money is on the military invasion of Taiwan happening in May of this year.

Not only is the incoming Biden administration entirely favorable to China (and includes some of the same advisors who had Obama stand down during the Scarborough Shoal incident), but May is the month where China once again will hold the Presidency over the UN Security Council and gets to set its agenda.

They're perfectly set up to stymy any international response that may be called for. Given the money flowing westward under Belt and Road, I imagine that won't be much of an outcry anyway, save for the expected parties (Japan, The Philippines, Vietnam).

Does the security council thing even matter honestly?

Like even if PLA marches on Taiwan now and US doesn't want to get in the war, what difference can security council make which otherwise would not have been possible outside security council?

No. Actually it doesn't matter at all, but China would rather not lose face of it being on the agenda to discuss at all. And that does matter, at least to China.

If they can sew up the whole thing inside of the month, I think it's a move they'll definitely make.

Plus the rest of the world is preoccupied with this virus.

You are assuming CCP thinks like you do, what if sending a message is extremely important to them?

Yes, and what if they see extraordinary people as a threat? They might be willing to sacrifice some potential growth if it helps them staying in power...

Yes, and everyone gets the message that even if successful and immense value generator for PRC, you can't expect to be safe for saying even non political stuff. This will just cause a chilling effect, there are plenty of brilliant Chinese people who might not like that.

Cultural revolution was not that long ago: 1966-1976. There has already been a chilling effect before Jack Ma. I would wager control is utmost importance to CCP. Not as concerned about the chilling effect on their top performers.

But more to lose now and countries would readily welcome the top performers.

>plenty of brilliant Chinese people who might not like that

And a almighty Party who exactly wants that.

They disappeared the head of Interpol a while back and that didn't cause much blowback.

A decade ago I would've believed this to be the case

With what they've been doing in surveillance infra and hk in recent years though it does look like they're not nearly as subtle anymore

Possibly also just a change in our awareness, but I wouldn't be surprised if they write him off in a covid fatality or something

I would have agreed with you a year ago, but I think I was naive about how much Xi wanted to play by international norms.

Pretty clear now that he's willing to be as ruthless as he thinks he can get away with... and this likely counts.

I think the appeal of 'successful entrepreneur' vanishes quickly if those in power feel that entrepreneur is not doing as they wish / they feel threatened / or some other situation.

There are always more entrepreneurs.

The CCP did nothing he was depressive and made suicide by jumping out of a windows.

Watch the documentary:

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/083456-000-A/china-the-disappe...

What would be stupid about it?

He is just benevolently chilling in the ICU with his 996 engineers.

There Is No War in Ba Sing Se

Jeff's basement or the Uyghur extermination camp

"re-education"*

(For lose definitions of what they're educating on)

Couldn't it be that he just hide to stay lowkey for a period of time to avoid further trouble?

The best option right now for him is to avoid exposure and shut his mouth, TBH.

Well, the state said that the power is still with the state and not with some super rich tech companies.

We _ALL_ know the harm of facebook and _ALL OF US_ wished this platform would be shut down immediately. But the state has nothing to say here.

Even if Facebook were shut down tomorrow (legally or not), I can't imagine any possible scenario where Zuck would be disappeared by the feds.

not true, most probably Zuck will disappear, if he releases say.. Pelosi's private DMs / WhatsApps.

He'd be in court for the next twenty years, but even then likely civil and not criminal. He wouldn't be blackbagged.

Did Epstein kill himself?

The unfortunate truth is that many people do successfully commit suicide in federal penitentiary. The Epstein "truthers" are firmly in the same group as the JFK truthers, moon landing denialists, and flat earthers.

ofc not. he is rich and famous. this helps in the US and A a lot. China does not care. Everything is shit in front of the law. Ironic that there is more equality than here.

Do you think Epstein killed himself?

It would be more like with Assange, you say? 2 years of isolation in a prison and more?

If Zuck lost an extradition hearing and then hid out in a foreign embassy for years I suspect he would be arrested when the embassy finally kicked him out, yes.

There's a difference between being arrested and put in jail until your bond hearing 24-48 hours later and being blackbagged and "interrogated" for 2 months before anyone knows where you are. We only do that to people in Europe and the Middle East, duh.

Do you think Jack Ma deserved to be punished for speaking negatively about the CCP? In your eyes, what punishment would fit this crime?

Stop speculating. The CCP has its reasons. This is how it works over there. Fix your own problems first, acknowledge and work up the death of almost 100 mio Indians, fix the shit you created in the Middle East, stop doing war crimes all around the world and stop running secret prisons. THEN you have the moral ground to speak about shit China is doing.

I am not American and I have not condemned (or supported) "shit China is doing". I was just trying to gauge your personal opinion so I could better understand your comment.

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