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Comment by nickelcitymario | Hacker News Reader

I've wanted to work full-time from home for as long as I can remember. It took about a month in lockdown for me to realize I hated it.

Turns out, my mental health is much better when I have an office to go to. 1h20 in commute (round-trip), no privacy, tons of distractions, and still I'm happier when I get to leave the house to go to work.

I suspect it's mostly just a matter of getting out of the house. Those 4 walls get pretty oppressive after a while.

I, too, found myself working from bed. It was not an improvement, and ended up being the last step towards a crippling depression that wouldn't let me get out of bed in the first place.

So, for me at least, working from bed is awful. Ergonomically, emotionally, spiritually just f---ing draining.

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Everybody's different. I've been wfh since the pandemic started, and it's been one of the best times of my life. Even in school I didn't have the bliss of never having to leave my home. My health, exercise routine, diet, sleep routine, work productivity, social life, personal productivity, quality of life in pretty much every aspect have basically all been perfect. Even outside, people keep a little more distance. Aside from the coronavirus danger itself, the past 10-ish months have been a dream for me.

Unfortunately there is no compromise that can please everyone if things return to how they were before, just finding an employer that caters to one's personal preference.

>Unfortunately there is no compromise that can please everyone

We have started working Thursdays and Fridays in the office and the rest at home. Its nice to get out and do something different and still have all the time savings and time to think at home most of the week. It does still require you to live close to the office though.

Yup - I've mostly worked from home since my son was born (he's nearly 30 now) - there's some tricks to making it work - get out of your bathrobe by noon, leave the house every day (harder during lock down of course).

Here in NZ we went thru a heavy lockdown for 6 weeks, I hardly noticed it

Yep seriously, for me it’s been amazing

I moved to a Midwestern city and wake up at around 11am, just in time for my 9am (SF time) meeting lol. I chat w colleagues constantly on zoom and get off after 5 hrs.

Of course I got my SO to keep company so it’s never boring. I suspect all the mental health issues we’ve been seeing in the pandemic have been from single or more extraverted folks

But for introverts who are already in stable relationship, I love the “isolation”!

Careful assuming introverts don't need socializing. There's a huge difference between just wanting left alone and being stuck home for months on end. I'm not exactly a social butterfly, but deeply miss casual hall conversations or getting coffee.

It definitely takes getting used to. I've been exclusively WFH for 8 years now and it's hard to imagine going back at this point, but it took a while to develop that groove.

My first job out of college, my boss actually told me "Don't miss meetings, don't miss deadlines and I don't care when you're here." About 3 weeks in I was dying to go to the office and just stayed there all the time.

In order to make WFH work for me now a few things had to fall into place:

1. My wife got so busy with her business that she has no free time to deal with anything at the house during the day, so any random person that needs to come by (contractors, cable repair, etc) I'm already here for. Additionally, most days I can use my lunch break for any errands that need to be run without it interfering with my after work hours.

2. I have 2 dogs that keep me company.

3. I've found other friends of mine who work from home or are up for grabbing lunch in the area. I tend to meet somebody out for lunch at least once a week.

4. I keep a TV on in the background, out of sight (usually the weather channel). I don't know why, but it makes the house feel less empty all day.

5. Facebook and some relevant community message boards (Clemson sports, local programmers Slack). Just need some type of social outlet.

>I keep a TV on in the background, out of sight (usually the weather channel). I don't know why, but it makes the house feel less empty all day.

I think the world is split into people who really need a background soundtrack of some sort and those who hate it.

Back when I sometimes had a roommate on group (non-work) trips, one of the things that drove me craziest was someone who just had to turn on the TV as soon as they walked into a room.

The funny thing is that I'm pretty much fine with ambient people sound. I just don't like background TV and, for the most part, I don't even turn on music when I'm working.

The key for me is noise that I'm not trying to listen to. The weather channel can be on and I have no need to try to focus on it.

If I put music on, it needs to be pretty consistent tempo with no words so that it's "there" but I'm not listening to it. The original Ironman soundtrack was my goto for this for years.

Yeah, for something like sleeping on a plane, I'll usually put something like new age-y instrumentals on. I just can't really ignore something even as uninteresting as The Weather Channel. It's like fingernails on a blackboard to me.

I dream that one day I’ll be able to turn my ears on and off at will. Earplugs work alright, but complete silence would be fantastic (personal safety be damned)

When you get old-enough, a cochlear implant is exactly that.

I haven't tried them yet, but to my understanding this is a key selling feature of AirPods.

Any chance anyone knows how successful these are at noise cancellation (without the use of music to drown out said noise)?

All noise cancellation is much better at canceling low frequency noise (like the engine on a plane) than voices, for example, which it mostly just muffles. For example, I have music playing in my house right now. If I put in my AirPod Pros and turn them on, the music gets quieter but I can still clearly hear it.

I find that on my over ear headphones, the physical barrier of the headphones blocks out a lot of higher sounds to some amount and the anc kills the low sounds. I can still hear stuff while I'm not playing sound but when I turn on music I can't hear anything around me.

Yes. Closed back over ears are definitely the most effective way to block external noise. And I've heard of people wearing over the ear protection over noise canceling that works even better. For me, basically the only time I really care (or want to be that isolated) is on planes though and I travel really light so over the ear headphones is a non-starter.

I love my AirPod pros and they do a great job getting rid of background noise. But I’d love a complete absence of sound (temporarily!)

I've done a few 30 minute sessions in an anechoic chamber, which is completely devoid of sound, and it's not as pleasant as it sounds.

You hear a lot more that's going on in your head/body, and regret not wearing earplugs to those gigs you went to years ago.

>personal safety be damned

Apple is working on fixing that. There is a setting on ios 14 that can alert you when it hears things like a fire alarm, dogs barking, people yelling, etc.

I think this is definitely exacerbated by the general lockdown situation on top of just working from home.

Previously I worked from home a couple of days per week. I augmented those days by walking to a nearby coffee place in the morning to get out of the house and get some movement in.

I'd also try to meet someone for lunch when schedules worked out.

This year many of us combined working from home with a restriction on all of those "safety valves" and in-person socialization in general.

Personally I think I was happiest with the part-time flexible work from home setup, but I think I could make full time work if I moved to an area with more walking-distance amenities.

> Previously I worked from home a couple of days per week.

That's very different from working from home every day. If it was an option, I'd love to work from home twice a week and from the office the other 3. That would be a nice balance.

> This year many of us combined working from home with a restriction on all of those "safety valves" and in-person socialization in general.

Definitely an interesting question. Would I have enjoyed working from home if I could still go out and socialize every day? Impossible to say but I'd love to find out some day.

> I think this is definitely exacerbated by the general lockdown situation on top of just working from home.

Yeah, people need to realize, this is not normal. Even I, as a highly distractable/sensitive introvert have had trouble coping. And I won't lie, the bicycle commute to work was great for waking me up and energizing me.

That said, I would prefer 100% WFH for the remainder of my career, no contest. There's just no getting around the level of control I have over everything from noise, to light, temperature, etc. It helps that I live alone and have a dedicated separate home office. And I can always go for a run, walk, or bicycle ride in place of the commute.

Well, you aren't just WFH full time, but WFH full time in a pandemic. WFH is much different when you can set up lunches with friends, work from cafes/restaurants/parks from time to time, and actually have face-to-face connections with people easily.

You're absolutely right. I look forward to getting the chance to try it out under better circumstances.

Yeah working from home full time for me is like cheating on a diet. It sounds great at first, and for a few weeks you eat whatever you want and you don't notice much change.

Then all your clothes stop fitting.

Working from bed is like eating ice cream for breakfast. Sounds great, nice maybe once as a treat, then becomes horrible.

I need structure, routine, and not having to go into work makes enforcing that routine so much harder.

100% agreement

If I never have to go back into an office routine again, my life will be much, much better for it. To each their own.

I think you have to make a routine, rather than hoping one is provided for you. I am not a routine person, but for me showering, opening up Slack, and switching Chrome profiles is how I transition from "home" to "work". I don't do "home" things during work hours, and I don't do "work" things during "home" hours. Even though I'm at the same desk. For me, it works as well as commuting did, without 30 minutes of being frustrated at the subway.

(I admit that I do do some "home" things at work, like laundry. That mostly involves turning on the machine and tending to it in an hour, so not a big time commitment but nice to get done during the day.)

Your post sounds more like an endorsement of walkable communities and dog ownership than an endorsement of commuting.

I didn't consider that I was endorsing commuting. Point well taken.

If I had a nice weather-protected path to walk to work (like the underground networks in some major cities), walking would be far preferable to driving.

My argument, nay, my observation, is that some type of transition between work and home appears to be vital to my well-being. I suspect that the time component for that transition is just as important.

For example: What if I built an office in my garage? That would give me a physically different space, but I'd be deprived of that transition time to switch mindsets.

What I don't know is how much time is needed for the same effect. Would a 5 minute walk suffice? Could it be even better? Who knows?

Many people have had the same experience over the past year. There's three things that are usually suggested which might help you, that you've touched upon.

First, you should have a dedicated work space. A room is preferable, but you can make do by erecting sight barriers to your desk for example. The main idea is to make it easy to leave your work 'at work' and not be reminded of it in your free time.

Second, clothing. If you feel your day lacks structure make sure you're not lounging about in a tracksuit all day. Put on clothes you would wear to the office before work, and take them off at the end of your day. Wear shoes.

Third, take a walk before starting work and afterwards. A 20 minute walk will allow you to plan the day ahead and get in work mode, and will let you unpack the day and unwind after work. Ignore the rain.

So basically, make going to work a ritual (as foolish or unlikely to work as it may sound). You should also minimise distractions and control impulses to do non-work related things while 'at work'. If you can, consider getting out of the house for lunch or eat at your desk and not at the dinner table. Lastly, take part or try to instigate remote water cooler chats with colleagues to keep sane.

Great tips! I particularly like the idea of creating a ritual. I think you've nailed it on the head with that one.

Good tips. I'm lucky enough to have a great room available for an office.

I curtained the doorway off, to remind the rest of the family (and myself) that when it is closed, I'm at work. Put a standing desk in, to help maintain my health.

I still shower and show up 'at work' around the same times I did before. At first I was there around the same time I'd leave for work, but I found I was not able to concentrate productively for 12-13 hours a day, so I've cut it closer to an 8-6 schedule, with some breaks to eat with family or drop kids off where they may need to go.

Take advantage of the greater flexibility- take the good with the bad. Was listening to Phish on the surround sound speakers connected to my receiver via bluetooth to my Mac Mini the other day, while working on my desktop I'd brought home attached to a nice big bright 4k monitor that I have at home, and connected via SD-WAN to the corporate network. Was a pretty productive and glorious way to get a lot of work done.

> Turns out, my mental health is much better when I have an office to go to. 1h20 in commute (round-trip), no privacy, tons of distractions, and still I'm happier when I get to leave the house to go to work.

This is very important to me. It helps me forget about work when heading home and vice versa. I also like talking to people in person at the office more than relying on Zoom watercooler rooms.

That commute turns out to be one of my favourite parts of the day.

In the mornings, I leave early to workout at the company gym. (Not true at the moment, because all gyms are closed in my area right now.) That commute gives me time to wake up and get into the gym mindset.

After work, it gives me time to unwind, let go of the stress for the day, and get into my dad-of-4 mindset.

Without it, everything blends together. My work days would never really start and never really end.

What's your commute like? The common thread I'm finding in the people that don't mind their commute is generally that... their commute isn't terrible.

Mine's 45m-1h to work, and 1h-2h home in a city with notoriously awful traffic design and flow. It's basically just 5 miles of gridlock. In the heavy urban traffic I find it actually _adds_ a lot of stress to my day--it definitely feels like a mad max style survival adventure more than anything.

I used to commute 45 minutes each way on a nice dual line divided highway with very light traffic. Barring the odd blizzard, I found it like you describe... A great chance to let my mind switch states between home/work. And it was nice to have an hour and a half every day where I _couldn't_ beat up on myself for not being productive and could actually just truly sit and enjoy listening to a podcast or something.

Mine was 22-24 minutes each way on the subway — just enough time to read a few HN posts on the phone, listen to a quick podcast episode, or blast through an offline Spotify playlist. I think the best part of my commute was that it provided a 'clean break' between working at the office and my home life.

I have noticed that most people that say this tend to just have shitty homes. Not every home is suitable for working from, you really need all sorts of amenities and plenty of space to walk around and refocus, and a good outdoor area. If you literally just have 600 sqft of bedroom, living room and kitchen then yea I can see why going to the office would be better.

> shitty homes

I mean, that's a bit disparaging. I've seen some beautiful 600 sqft apartments.

But to your general point, I agree. I just don't think a space needs to be shitty in order to be inappropriate for daily work. If its small or the area lacks food outdoor amenities, it's easy to get cabin fever.

I think in context that could be read as "shitty for the purpose of also being an office", not a general disparagement of their living situation in general.

Another thing I've noticed is that the people who are anti-wfh seem to do better with externally-imposed structure rather than internally-imposed. I can't relate at all to people who say their sleep schedule is ruined, their work and personal life blends together, etc. I wfh lately and my work day is a hard 9 to 5 unless something out of the ordinary's going on, I get 8 hours, work out most days, stick to my diet, etc. The less external constraints I have, the more I can create a routine that's perfectly suited to myself.

I disagree on this point. Most of my colleagues at work tend to agree that the shift to WFH has been very negative, regardless of type/size of home.

Presence or non-presence of kids in said home definitely is a factor, but I have heard unhappiness expressed by both parents and non-parents.

The biggest factor is that the lack of an office simply reduces the effectiveness of social communication. People still talk, but the talking is simply not as effective nor, importantly as fulfilling as the in-person chatter is in the office environment.

WFH during a pandemic is different than WFH when everything isn’t locked down.

I’d encourage you to avoid conflating the two as the experience is vastly different.

I've been working from home on and off for going on 15 years now and he lockdown has been terrible for WFH. No popping out to a cafe for a couple hours. Or my local coworking space etc. The monotony of it is draining.

That mirrors my experience. Before shelter in place I'd go to a café about 2-3 hours every other day in the morning. Technically, I'd rotate between a café and a breakfast place close by that was always abandoned and they had an espresso machine. It was my own secret café.

And I've found the opposite. I'm genuinely not being antagonistic - I just think it's important to get a diversity of voices out there on this topic lest people feel that there's only one "truth".

100%. If I have a central point it's that no one way of working is right for everyone.

Case in point: My partner works from home, has for years, and has no interest in working from an office. It's worth noting, however, that she also prefers it when I leave every day. (Read into that what you will.)

It's also worth pointing out that working from home not equals working from home during lockdown.

> I suspect it's mostly just a matter of getting out of the house. Those 4 walls get pretty oppressive after a while.

They can be.

I'm fortunate to have enough space in my house that I can silo the different areas of the house. I have a few places I'm happy to work in, but I also have a basement that I never do work in.

Hey pal, if your mental health is struggling, my email is in my profile. Feel free to reach out - I'm no picture of perfect mental health so can't judge and besides, I don't know you from a hole in the ground! You can tell me just about anything and who cares??? :)

If you're doing better great, if not, strangers can be a tremendous help.

This resonates deeply with me.

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