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Comment by bluejekyll | Hacker News Reader

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices.

It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’ll wait to upgrade to the last moment.

On a similar note, it seems Nintendo with the switch has hobbled USB-C in some way that standard equipment won’t work with it, like charging over generic USB-C, is this accurate? Has Sony similarly hobbled the spec for PS4/5?

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As I understand it, Nintendo didn't intentionally hobble their USB-C port, they just screwed up the Power Delivery implementation. (And didn't care enough to fix it.)

Some chargers are tolerant of Nintendo's mistakes, others aren't.

The dock uses a non-standard implementation of USB-PD, the Switch itself can charge just fine with just about any charger, though. As I understood it, the dock randomly switches between different voltages depending on load, while portable mode uses plain old USB-PD with a consistent charge. While you can use the dock with Apple's 61W charger, it's not really recommended, since it can still get bricked with a software update. The 87W/96W charger isn't safe for the dock at all.

> Apple... committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices.

Ipad pro and the new ipad air have a type C connector. My phone and watch use cables that plug into the same Type C brick I use for my Mac.

But nitpicking examples aside I agree that they should ditch lightning. It's still entrenched for all the other devices.

USB-C is now a requirement for me to upgrade my iPhone. I'm holding onto my XS until they switch to that.

I think we’re more likely to see a port-less (read MagSafe only) iPhone sooner than a USB-C version. I will say the iPad Pro with USB-C was a revelation for usability though. Not to mention companies like Flir being able to create one product line.

I don’t know about that. The physical port is still useful for hard resets and management of a “bricked” device (granted I’ve only needed that on an older device, and never on the model I currently have).

Does Apple still get a cut in lightning licensing? If so I think they will move engineering heaven and earth to avoid losing that revenue stream so also agree with the above poster that I’d put money on moving to the wireless.

That's absurd.

There is zero possibility that third-party licensing income for the Lightning port standard is a consideration in any engineering decisions at Apple.

Apple could keep around a hidden diagnostic port, like they do on Apple Watch and HomePod.

The lack of USB-C is the reason I didn't replace my Airpods with more Airpods when their battery died.

(Still looking for a decent replacement -- I unfortunately cannot use the kind that has those rubber seal plug things, I must have the hard plastic style like the non-pro Airpods)

Just got the Soundpeats Trueair 2, they're very very similar design to airpods. Case is slightly smaller even, much lighter/cheaper feeling but are well built enough, work reliably and have usb-c.

The future of iPhone charging is wireless. The current iPhone12 with MagSafe is the first of the new system. I predict future iPhones will have no physical ports at all, 100% wireless.

I had to clean the lightning socket on my iPhone XS as it had some pocket fluff inside that prevented the cable from filling clicking in. Cleaning it was trivial, just some cardboard and a well positioned light source.

On the flip side, cleaning out USB-C sockets from the same types of fluff is a pain because the data pins are in an island in the middle of the socket. Which gives you both less room (is requiring you to use a thinner implement) but also a greater risk of damaging the socket.

USB micro had the same problems as well.

I really with USB would address this because, with the best will in the world, devices sometimes get dirty.

> Which gives you both less room (is requiring you to use a thinner implement) but also a greater risk of damaging the socket.

A flattened wood toothpick works great for this. Take a regular round pointy toothpick and flatten the end 5mm or so by squeezing it in a pair of pliers or some such.

I was ready to replace my phone until I learned this trick. I had already tried cleaning the port out, but obviously not well enough.

I think it is because they had already built out a lightning ecosystem years before USB-C came and mostly solved the same problem lightning did.

This left Apple in a weird spot. They could keep the iPhone on Lightning and users could continue using the same cables and peripherals they have been since 2012. Or, they could switch. This would require many users to buy new accessories, but they could be generics that work with any phone.

The switch from Lightning to USB-C is not as advantageous as the switch from the old 30-pin connector to Lightning was. To users already invested in the Apple/Lightning ecosystem, a switch to USB-C would not bring much benefit.

Not for all their portable devices; the iPad Pros have been USB-C since 2018, and the iPad Air since September this year.

Ah, thanks. I actually totally forgot about. Maybe I should get one now (2 years later) to help spur them on.

What's funnier is that Apple already has an iOS device that has USB-C for its main port, the iPad Pro. So I'd presume most of the engineering work to get rid of Lightning completely has already been done at this point.

On Switch, I did charge mine from a powerbank with a USB-A to USB-C cable, it did work but there clearly wasn't enough power. The battery kept draining but very slowly.

All these complex theories/complaints about lightning. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, one good reason for not shifting to USB-C is to keep IP ratings high.

Most USB-C sockets I can find are waterproof only with a matching cable plugged in.

> All these complex theories/complaints about lightning. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, one good reason for not shifting to USB-C is to keep IP ratings high.

Also accessories. Sure there's a sunk costs fallacy component to it, but still: it wasn't that long ago that apple users needed to replace all their ADC accessories with lightning ones.

There’s such a long tail of it, too: I still see ADC connectors in hotel room phone docks, etc.

Before USB-C I would have agreed about giving them the benefit of doubt the doubt. But as a sibling comment pointed out, they have an iPad model that is USB-C, my hope is that means the entire line of products will switch over.

I’m actually guessing that they have a long tail of hardware designs that all need to be changed, and that process takes a while. Even their new headphones are lightning based, though they were under development for 4 years... that’s as far as I’ll give them.

All of the Android phones with USB C and high IP ratings makes that seem unlikely.

I think they're keeping lightening to help their 'eco' brand.

They just removed chargers from the iPhone box because 'everyone has one' - if they suddenly changed to USB-C on iPhone it would create a LOT of ewaste.

I still think they should switch, but I reckon it's because they'd get accused of hypocrisy if they deprecated it.

Even apple chargers are regular USB at the charger-end, right? Just include a cable then, problem solved.

Or the apple way: an adapter.

Most of them, anyway.

I've been putting an Apple Watch SE through its initial paces over the past week and was mildly disappointed to find that only Series 6 ship with a Type C cable in the box - the SE uses Type A.

The same split is true for iPhone 12 Pro, so far as I can tell, even though (curiously) my 11 Pro from last year did include a 20W Type C Power Adapter in the box.

They could just as easily spin it as “Now you can use the charger from your macbook, meaning only one cable!”

Or, if they want to get really wild: they can openly talk about the other usb-c devices that you might have.

Part of me thinks they may intend to get rid of the physical ports altogether on the iPhone. This would serve to differentiate the "productive" iPad from iPhone, and allow them to scratch that minimalist itch they get every once in a while.

I can charge my Switch on random USB-C power sources.

(No clue whether it's as effective as the included charger, but certainly works well enough.)

That’s good to hear? I think I was seeing issues with that on some of my chargers, maybe I need to double check the power ratings on the bricks.

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