FAA issuing new rules to allow drones to fly over people and at night
reuters.com
reuters.com
I feel like a basic safety like this would be a prudent and more effective measure for overhead flights than self-transmitting "license plates" (which I agree are at least better than the silly internet requirement).
I would pay extra for a drone with such safeguards. just the prospect of less chances of ruining it would be enough.
Similarly, eskates often have a regenerative battery charging while braking which is a great idea. but it also cannot handle charging while already full. So if you go down a slope while the board is full, it can decide to shut down and let you bomb down that hill. Which sounds like an insane pitfall.
Or what happens if the board loses its connection to the remote ? I would hope that it brakes progressively but similarly it just does nothing .. so up to you to find a way to stop.
It is such a weird blind spot to have. I don't think a car manufacturer would ship a product with this kind of blind spot, is that a culture thing ? regulation ?
Anyway, fingers crossed that somebody seizes these opportunities.
I’m not... no safety is what the free market will deliver in the absence of regulations or liability or both.
Do you really think if a company could prove it provides double the survivability of accidents compared to others, the free market wouldn't reward it?
Your claim simply doesn't match reality.
Regulation and regulation alone provided us with seatbelts and safety glass. Car companies even ran a massive lobbying and advertising campaign to convince America seatbelts weren't necessary with slogans calling drivers in car accidents "the nut behind the wheel" https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nut-behind-wheel/
I don't think that anyone is arguing that. I think the point is that the free market doesn't deliver these kind of safety features w/o the "incentive" of government mandates. Whether that is b/c the market doesn't demand those safety features in the absence of a mandate is another issue.
Volvo had them standard, but Volvo has also never been above 1% market share in the US [1]. If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
[1] https://knoema.com/infographics/floslle/top-vehicle-manufact...
The part we should be worried about is that it took 9 years for the govt to require it. 50 years from now, we'll be talking about how stupid it was that drones didn't have safety features.
Safer than who? Model T fords? How many Tesla's are on the road anyway? In which countries? What about Ferrari? Mercedes?
Why can’t Tesla just give us an option to keep it consistent? I guess adding video games is more important.
My BMW i3 did this really well, FWIW.
Regen works because the batteries are being charged by the induction of the motors taking energy from the moving car. If the batteries are full they cannot take any more change and hence cannot draw power from the motion of the car.
What do you expect them to do? Dump the current on a giant resistor and hope it doesn't melt?
That's called an induction brake and it's already widely used in trains and semi trucks. That said, you still need a friction brake at low speeds, since the induction braking force is proportional to velocity.
You know...they could use it to boil water for a built in coffee/green tea maker.
Just a thought...
Maybe it's not worth the cost/complexity anyway, but the idea has merit somewhere in the design space.
You'd have to cool it, as other commenters have pointed out (you're putting a car's worth of kinetic energy into the thing, after all). I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea, just possible.
Exactly. I would also expect a drone to have triple redundundancy of all sensors but they seem to have only one copy of each.
They should be safe, so they don't fall on people etc, but that is a separate issue.
Same for GPS and everything else.
Some things are more or less important, and even insignificant for safe landing. Triple redundant sensors won't save you from programming errors, birds or cables in rotors, batteries bursting into flames which is still more likely to cause a crash than your only camera or microphone failing - probably even a GPS failure, as long as you have a working IMU.
1. Props still spinning waiting to cut people up in event of flyaways or loss of power from one or more props
2. In the event of total loss of power, what is the total kinetic energy that would be imparted on an individual should the falling drone strike them
Parachute systems effectively deal with both. A proper setup will power off the drone, making sure the props aren't spinning, and lower the rate of descent so minimal kinetic energy will be transferred in the event of a collision with a human being.
The new rules firmly codify what requirements must be met to operate over people safely, and parachutes along with prop guards should easily meet them.
My DJI dropped out of 100m in the middle of the flight because GPS took so long to synchronize.
And yes, the firmware does not "safely autoland" like any reasonable person would expect. Instead it just shuts off the power and drops down.
How is this any different than an aircraft transponder or IFF device?
Really the biggest problem is they aren't cheap, costing more than the drone themselves.
I don't know what, if any, approaches are implemented but one solution is that you can design a safety feature in the motor control to turn off the motor if it detects blockage.
The propellers would not be spinning, and the object would be gently gliding down.
The GP dismissal of the danger of the propellors sounded suspiciously like the guy on YT who just got fined $182k by the FAA, who argued that the first offense for hitting someone in the head should be a $20 fine.
Regardless of whether the blades are locked or spinning at lower RPMs, still better than powered drones falling from the sky!
You could even fill them with helium.
In the future where drones are popular, if you get a drone with a high def camera flying over your backyard, you want to be able to identify who is flying it.
"The final Remote ID rule eliminates the requirement that drones be connected to the internet to transmit location data; the final rule requires drones to broadcasts remote ID messages via radio frequency broadcast."
This is great because RF broadcast-based Remote ID is much simpler and cost-effective to integrate into existing hobby or consumer drones. It could be built into RC receivers, or as a separate transponder.
What is the argument why their vehicles should be trackable?
I’ll still take it over the internet mandate, however - so it’s a step in the right direction.
The FAA has decided that unregulated drone flight is an issue, and no matter what, they're going to tackle it. So I'm happy to see any solution that allows for the continued existence of the DIY part of the industry.
In my mind the "ideal" solution for DIY aircraft is a separate RC receiver-sized transmitter, powered over BEC, that you add to your aircraft when you are flying in conditions that require Remote ID. The transmitter would become another fixed cost in the hobby, but you could use it on whatever aircraft you're flying -- It would be linked to a pilot, instead of a particular aircraft. I have zero knowledge of RF physics and engineering, but I'd be happy if that was possible without a heavy transmitter and significant power consumption.
Some people have very different concerns about accountability of drones.
A couple of years ago, a guy up the street got a "drone" for Christmas, and spent the next couple of weeks flying into the backyards of everyone on the block, presumably to look in the windows or see what else he could get away with. I don't know why he thought that was a good idea, especially since the thing was noisy as hell.
It stopped suddenly. I don't know if someone called the police, or hit it with a tennis racket, or what. But by Saint Valentine's Day he was back to racing his remote controlled cars up and down the block, instead.
Every time I try and assuage fears laypeople have about drones and privacy there’s a story or anecdote about some dumbass who does stuff like this anyway...
Surprised that even tech enthusiasts are often so fearful of drones while not worried about the hundreds of cameras already filming their activities in most public places.
Large lenses are very heavy and benefit greatly from a stable platform. Tripods and low earth orbit are preferred by spies of consequence.
In the scenario I wrote about above, every house in the neighborhood has a seven-foot-tall cinderblock wall around it. The guy was flying over these walls to look in the people's first-floor windows from their backyards. A cell phone on a stick isn't a problem in that scenario.
The cameras are also in neighborhoods, and if you have neighbors, you probably have several cameras pointing at your property, too.
Ring cameras are everywhere, and since they upload to the cloud, their recordings are one request to Amazon away from being in the government's hands.
Most of the concern with proposed Remote ID regulations was because 1) The regulation didn't actually solve the issue of untrained drone operators and 2) Added a high barrier to entry that would stifle the large hobby/enthusiast/startup industry while giving large companies like Amazon free reign over the airspace.
On a dad level, well. Protective emotions can be intense.
The solution is to raise the height for normal aircraft. That makes room for drones. We could give the drones from 500 to 1900 feet, putting normal aircraft at 2000 feet and above.
There are also plenty of good reasons to be under 2,000 ft. The most general is that all training and approach for VFR ops at airports is done at 1,000 ft. by default.
Airspace and altitudes are pretty complex, for a more involved example: A VFR flight departing North from Boeing field in Seattle HAS to stay below 1800 ft but above the highest parts of the city at ~750 ft. Because the air-space above 1800 belongs to jets on instrument approach to Sea-tac. In other words, to get out of that airfield you have to fly underneath the 747s. Seattle is just one example, there's weird airspace like this that balances the needs of different users just about everywhere.
In any case, raising floor altitude for non-RC/unmanned aircraft to 2k feet would pose fairly substantial challenges as, even ignoring the fact that airports require approaches below 2k feet and are often near populated areas, lots of commercial applications for light aircraft require low altitudes. Survey, photography, news gathering, law enforcement, sightseeing, etc. These are many of the same applications drones are posed for... there doesn't really seem to be any way to simply separate these types of traffic entirely.
Step 1 should always be to go talk to your neighbor before escalating further, but in cases like this it seems like it would be easy enough to have the police pay them a visit too.
"Whoever willfully imparts or conveys any threat [against an aircraft] shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."
Come and get me.
Too soon to tell for sure, but as somebody who just upgraded to a Mavic Air 2 this year from a Spark I am hopeful (DJI may not always be a shining example of a consumer friendly enterprise, see the SDK fiascos this year, but they don't want to piss off everybody who has bought a drone in the past few years either).
I don't understand why it's fine to use drones to take photos and videos for personal use, and why it's perfectly fine to use the smartphone in your hand for commercially-usable photos and videos, but combine the two and you suddenly have to get an FAA license?
That requirement feels very arbitrary, and it feels like a requirement that will eventually go away.
I still hope they’ll make the rules more permissive at some point, especially as drones are integrating more and more flight automation and collision avoidance technology. Maybe certify certain drones with specific features and restrictions as being suitable for commercial usage without a license? Accidents can still happen, but... accidents can also happen with any kind of commercial activity, even without drones involved at all.
The hardest thing about getting the part 107 license might actually be getting the identification form signed, since it needs to be done by an official. If you take the exam at a flight school they'll probably offer to have a CFI do it for you (for a fee I'm sure), but if you take the exam at a non-flight-specific testing center you might have to make a trip to a FSDO or call a CFI and see if they'll do it. It would help with the accessibility of the 107 license if they got rid of the somewhat arcane proof of identity rules inherited from other pilot's licenses.
The thing that bothers me about that is the scenario where pictures are taken for fun, but later what if someone were to offer money for them?
If you’re regularly selling photos from your regular drone flights then that’s hard to argue about. But a once off because you happen to take a news worthy photo is another story.
And not for nothing but if you have a private pilot's license already, you can get a commercial drone license with nothing more than a CFI endorsement and a quick online written test. Most PPL holders I know (myself included) added it as an after-thought.
I hope buildings in future can implement some sort of electromagnetic area denial system for drones sort of like a robots.txt that drones have to respect (or active denial) and they can't cross some boundary like a airspace around the building so you can't have drones flying up to your windows in your 30th floor apartment and peering in
/s
Because it's the only way they found to regulate the behavior. They would prefer to regulate all of the drone flying, but they have limitations in power in a variety of ways, and they don't want to bother Congress about it.
Additionally, the idea that the FEDs can manage all this is insane. Drones are not airlines, where a city 30k’ below a flight path shouldn’t have a say in the flight. If drone flights take off, land, or transits a cities boundaries, that city should be more involved than the FEDs, who should just manage overall safety and compliance. The future of drones and beyond visual line of sight over other people's property will be more akin to cars, the DMV, and public roads, than to aircraft, airlines, and the ATC. It will require a ton of local involvement, which, unfortunately, the major corporate players focused on delivery don’t want.
I have a small DJI Mini 2 drone and it's pretty much impossible to hear over the street noise in my neighborhood if it's more than about 50 feet up in the air.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/drones/news/a17969/m...
Please explain. I'm genuinely curious.
I started chucking rocks at a "drone" flown by a tourist that got in my face at a state park in Arizona once. The "pilot" started shouting at me in German. He was very surprised to learn that my childhood taught me how to shout back at people in German.
Different regulations are handled by different authorities. Noise is often regulated at a local level.
For example, someone living close to the Niagara Falls may not be bothered by the same drone noise that someone in a remote area without much ambient noise might be.
My worst-case scenario, perhaps totally unrealistic, is that this allows a drone with a camera to hover over my property, peeping in through the windows.
Are there any current / upcoming rules that prevent that?
This announcement isn’t at all related your concerns, and changes (essentially?) nothing there whatsoever.
Maybe this can be efficient if the drone had a fixed wing so it can glide. Or we can make the "structure" really really tall -- perhaps the delivery plane can launch drones that basically paraglide into the city below, and the drones can fly back to a collection center once they've delivered the payload.
Alternatively, you could use a ground-based slingshot to vertically propel gliders, an approach that is already used in the military and for some long distance UAV testing. However, the wing-based UAV vs. rotor-based UAV physics are very different. Landing an elevated glider with a clear path to its target is one thing, maneuvering between trees and power lines in a complex environment without rotors is quite another.
Then you need to look at a 'convertible' UAV with both features... undoubtedly this raises the cost, reduces the carrying capacity, and is already being pursued.
Finally, you could zoom out and re-evaluate the business case. Why not use a network of local dispatch points (handover points to ground-based UAVs or vans) to reduce the distance to the consumer and with the smaller geographic scope negotiate private airspace access on locally agreeable terms. I believe this is the future for general consumption (food, regular deliveries within small package weight/dimension limits).
Wouldn't the cost of elevating the loaded drones to the rooftop of that tall structure negate any monetary gains? Wouldn't the cost be exactly that of simply using grounded vehicles that elevate themselves?
(edited for clarity)
In summary: Rain the deliveries onto the neighborhood with a railgun.
In real terms, I'm doubtful that the majority of people's goods would withstand that kind of rapid acceleration. Consumer electronics frequently break from hitting the floor, a rail gun would probably shred them. You could accelerate more slowly, but then you need more runway, and you might end up building a skyscraper anyways to get a delivery radius that's more than half a mile.
flight is appealing over ground based drones as one delivery truck or base station could concurrently service multiple blocks with lower risk of someone abducting or damaging the drone. Although in all honesty I'm not sure if weight, range, carrying capacity, or speed would work out in a compelling form factor.
I saw a mockup video of this once. I think it was for UPS, but I might be remembering that part wrong. The upshot was that it's not useful in cities, but could be used to make exurban and rural deliveries much more efficient because the delivery truck doesn't have to trundle down a bunch of long driveways.
Take NYC for example: Delivery people on e-bikes are still harassed incessantly by the NYPD and community boards by people being scared of the possibility of being hit by them.
Factor in our paranoia about terrorism and a single accidentally dropped package would likely result in counter terrorism and bomb squads being called in.
I couldn’t imagine any proposal for giant flying robots with multi-pound payloads hovering overhead be taken seriously by even the most progressive leaders.
In hard to reach / rural areas, I could see some benefits from drone technology though. Drone chainsaws, anyone?[0]
[0] https://nypost.com/video/watch-this-helicopter-saw-blaze-thr...
However, swarms of little drones flying in the sky of cities or private properties seems incredibly irritating, however efficiently they improve deliveries.
A better way to think about it is as a shared data structure. It is a 3d vector space with some attributes that help predict the future. Each drone has a different version of this data structure in memory. The data structure has an initial state at take-off and is updated using radio communication and sensor data.
If the data structure is perfectly synchronised then planning is easy. There is plenty of sky and simple rules can be applied. But it never will be perfectly synchronised. in that sense it is like a globally distributed database.
The data structure may have been edited by another drone and the change not communicated. You may have lost communication and not even realised. Local conditions may have reduced GPS quality giving you false location information.
So perhaps an interesting metaphor is concurrency control. Do we lock airspace or can we have transactions? Can we partition or shard the airspace? When is consistent state required?
Additionally they can usually fly higher which further reduces the noise pollution.
Video 1 - Third Party Testing - https://youtu.be/jtzT5sKxf3A
Video 2 - Promotional Video - https://youtu.be/Yp53H77hgA8
Feel free to ask questions about how they work, what testing is required, or about the new rule.
Here is another article that we wrote today: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-6749416334729195520-...
Remote ID Final Ruling: https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachments/RemoteID_Final_Ru...
Not to mention ADS-B OUT is expensive as all hell, power hungry and heavy - not a good match for lightweight unmanned craft.
https://hackaday.com/2011/03/21/herf-gun-zaps-more-than-your...
Then I don't even have the option of throwing my phone or alexa in the fireplace.
This makes sense to me. Not sure where people are getting lost. This commenter p410n3 is clearly a cynic. Some people think the world is always listening, always watching them. But what they don't realize is they blend in with the noise because they aren't all that important. No one cares to listen to them. I don't think they like that answer though ;)
I just don't like the idea of a flying high def camera in my face that I can't grab and smash against the wall. Because it's literally flying above me out of reach.
If I had tech to destroy it. I would use that tech. I guess a gun would work if you're a good shot. They use hawks in Scotland.
I mean, also because laws? When you're out in public folks can record you with the high def cameras on their smartphones today, and you're still not allowed grab them and smash them against the wall without consequences.
How is CCTV that much different? Or people with cameras?
https://whitmancountywatch.com/2019/11/07/pullman-police-fli...
It seems that these regulations are focused on permitting private commercial flights similar rights.
I find a loud buzzing totally pulls me out of any reverie and makes me angry. I was watching the birds last week near a drone also and they were rerouting or turning away from the area it was flying in. Totally not worth it to disturb people, and even worse, what little wildlife still remains in the open space we have pushed them into.
With regards to cameras in public places, I'd be far more worried about somebody hiding in the bushes quietly with a DSLR that nobody knows about. At least with a drone you're very aware that it's there. If you want to change the laws about taking pictures in public places - fine (and good luck!) but again, singling out drones doesn't make much sense here.
This is a new thing, and (in my opinion) we should make rules based on how those things will affect us as collectively, rather than purely out of a need to be consistent with all existing things.
Remember also, how often are you bothered by a loud motorcycle? Living in a city, it is fairly regular here, sometimes in the middle of the night, but not THAT regular.
For all we know, drones over my house might be an every five minutes thing. Even if they are much quieter than that occasional window-rattling Harley, it could be far more annoying overall.
I don't know if I can put much stock in the frequency argument either... If you live in a neighborhood and 3 guys with motorcycles move in, you'll be hearing them very regularly. Drones aren't going to come any more often than delivery trucks do today, and they're certainly loud enough to be heard, not even counting the extra wear on the local roads, and increased pedestrian danger.
Well that seems based purely on consistency, and I just disagree with that. I'm all for outlawing (or heavily taxing) newly produced, loud motorcycles, but it's not a hill I want to die on. Internal combustion is a fading technology anyway.
Remember that internal combustion replaced horses, which at one time covered city streets in massive amounts of manure. As new transportation technology arrived, should we have just said "anything that is equal or better than tons of horse crap is A-ok"? Or should we hold new technology to higher standards, while letting the annoying old stuff fade away on its own?
"Drones aren't going to come any more often than delivery trucks do today"
I find that an odd assumption. If the cost gets low enough, as it will, you'll have people ordering drone-delivered trivially small purchases that they want delivered immediately, such as cups of coffee. Meanwhile, the frequency of loud motorcycles will get less and less, as electric vehicles become more common over the next few decades.
If it were up to me, drone deliveries would just have to pay an annoyance tax, to compensate. This would create an economic incentive to develop other alternatives, such as robotic deliveries that roll on the ground.... which to me makes far more sense anyway, since they aren't spending most of their energy simply keeping themselves airborne as drones do.
My gut says an annoyance fee makes sense, but I think we need to be careful... Maybe it's only something you enforce after you hit a threshold of deliveries per day/week or something? Today I can place a single amazon order for multiple small items (think batteries, toilet roll, etc), and there's a decent chance they'll all come on separate trucks, maybe even from different mail carriers. That doesn't feel much different? I can't think of too much more beyond a fresh cup of coffee that a drone could deliver that you can't already get today with services like UberEats et al. Should my neighbors pay an annoyance fee when they order pizza and the 18 year old delivery guy swings by with his radio on full blast? I'd love if the answer was yes, but that doesn't feel realistic.
Re: holding new technology to a higher standard... Sure, but we have to make sure not to disadvantage the new tech so much as to completely prevent adoption. If it costs $50 to get some batteries delivered in the next hour via drone vs $0 on an old ice-powered truck in the next day, we'll never move on. Even if we electrify the delivery trucks, they still cause significant wear and tear on local roads, and still pose a hazard to pedestrians (especially kids playing in otherwise quiet residential streets). We should be incentivizing companies and consumers to move away from this as fast as possible in my opinion. Make triple-glazed windows cheaper, invest in quieter drone motor tech, whatever it takes. If we regulated car emissions in the early days like we do today, we might still all be on horses...
I’m also not sure what bearing a Harley has on this situation - we can reason about this without bringing motorcycles into the picture. But for consistency sake I am also against vehicles that are as loud as motorcycles and don’t accept the weak argument that the loudness is a “safety feature”.
It's already illegal to fly drones outside of line-of-sight of the operator, and once they start getting big enough (>250g) to allow a longer flight time, the operator is also required to have a spotter, a license and register the drone with the government (USA). The new rules mentioned in the article also directly try to address this with remote ID - the idea is that it's a "digital license plate" which must be openly broadcast from all drones > 250g. So if you see a drone doing something illegal (eg no operator within line of sight), it should be trivial to report it and for the operator to face consequences.
My point about Harleys was that of precedence - we already live in a very noisy world where it's perfectly acceptable to buy/modify incredibly loud machines (louder than drones by a lot) for primarily entertainment purposes, to be used in public or residential areas. My leaf blower literally makes more noise than my drone and usually runs for 10x as long, to say nothing of a multi-stage gas-powered snowblower. My point here is that things are loud, and drones aren't even close to the loudest things we already find totally acceptable, so it feels arbitrary to ban them over noise concerns. For what it's worth, I'm totally on board with restricting night-flying for noise reasons, I just don't think we need additional laws beyond existing noise ordinance for daytime flying.
Finally, if you're feeling very paranoid about this from a camera/anonymity perspective today (TFA says the new rules have ~30 months before coming into effect), most drones broadcast their video feed on analog channels, so you can buy a $10 receiver that'll plug into any modern smartphone and you can see exactly what the drone sees. That should lead you back to the operator if necessary (bonus points if you record your screen for evidence of any wrongdoing).
Also, many modified motorcycle exhaust systems will not have a catalytic converter in order to save on weight, this is especially true for sport bikes.
Now that said some people are obnoxious with it, they fly by people, make noise, I agree that should met with criticism, maybe fines, but I also believe drones will have a big impact in quality of life not just from delivery bots but police, medical, and including hobbyists.
I read the blithe attitude in comments like these, and I am sure there will be large escalations in the future. FWIW, in AZ, this behaviour appears to be legal.