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Comment by eralps | Hacker News Reader

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary?

If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my income in that country.

If I basically stop being a citizen of the US by moving to another country why do I need to continue paying for it?

Is there any other country that does this?

Edit: This post made me finally read about this scenario. FEIE [1] exclusion for about $105,000 as of 2020. Is a relief because I can never earn that amount with the exchange rate in my country of birth.

1. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...

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If you become a US citizen you have to file yearly IRS tax returns, calculate and pay taxes. There is no getting around this, it does not matter where you live.

The US has bilateral tax agreements with certain countries to avoid double taxation. So if you happen to be in one of these countries, you will normally pay taxes to your host country and if those are greater than the taxes owed to the US (which in many cases they will be), your US tax will be zero. You still have to file the US tax return and you still need to pay taxes on income derived in the US (such as dividends and interest) as that can not be eliminated by foreign taxes.

Good reply. This is a cost of US citizenship and you are not forced to acquire citizenship. You could get permanent residency. I had to make this choice and chose citizenship 15 years ago. It’s a hell of a thing swearing that you’ll bear arms to defend a country you weren’t born in.

I have had many occasions to feel glad that I did. From military base tours to easier to entry/exit to Canada to buying a house or getting a loan. It generally makes paperwork much easier in this country and opens up a few doors.

If you think the tax filing requirement is a big deal, consider the restrictions and obligations that other countries have. Compulsory military service, restrictions on moving money, etc.

Not exactly a big deal I just did not think it was feasible but the exclusion is reasonable.

Kind of off point but I actually do have a compulsory military service in my country of birth as well.

Well I have another good news for you: Permanent residents still have to pay the IRS the same way citizens do even if they left or to renounce their green card.

Not only do you have to file tax returns, but you’ll get no help in doing it since you aren’t going to be issued W2s. At least you can e-file now, but doing taxes abroad is much harder than doing them here.

> If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen?

You have a benefit of a right to return to the country of your citizenship and to live there. You also still could vote in a country of your citizenship even if living outside (not sure how that fit in US federal setup).

This makes sense you are right. Voting rights never even came to my mind.

Consular assistance too.

Realistically, it does not matter whether you apply for citizenship for not. All the same regulations will apply to you, including the exit tax, as a green card holder.

> If I basically stop being a citizen of the US by moving to another country why do I need to continue paying for it?

You don't "stop" being a citizen. Part of the process to apply for citizenship is education about what becoming a citizen means through the civics test, and it should be very clear to you that this is not meant to be just a convenient thing that you do as a formality.

Citizenship comes with rights but also duties, if you are not willing to accept the duties that comes with it, you should not become a citizen and you should instead renew your green card.

Renouncing your US citizenship isn't a stop?

This was in response to the quote:

> If I basically stop being a citizen of the US by moving to another country

And I was saying you don't stop being a citizen by moving somewhere else.

Citizenship is not something you can (or should be able to) just turn on and off at your convenience.

Both permanent residents and citizens have to pay income on their worldwide income according to the IRS.

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