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Comment by hammock | Hacker News Reader

>restricting the density of people at gathering spots?

Restricting the density to... Zero? Is that what they are calling the forced shutdown of indoor and outdoor restaurants, gyms and other places of business and subsequent jailing of violators now?

(And jailing of mask violators as well, despite mounting evidence that mask mandates don't work and/or make the problem worse)

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Where I am at (Austin, TX, USA) it is a sliding scale. Depending on a number of metrics (eg, rate of infection, hospital occupancy), the percentage occupancy allowed in restaurants goes up or down. And yes, when it is at stage 5, it changes to zero occupancy, allowing only to-go orders.

I have zero worries that this is part of a power grab by evil overlords; they have nothing to gain from this, unlike the power grab to make encryption have government accessible backdoors, or routing all internet traffic through NSA scrapers.

> jailing of mask violators as well

Where are they being jailed? None in the US that I know of. I'm sure there are a few people who have created such a disturbance that they had to be removed by police, but that is ancillary to the reason they are getting nabbed, such as the guy at a Costco screaming at people and threatening to hurt them because they told him to put on a mask. He was arrested (but not jailed) for threatening people, not because he didn't wear a mask.

Yes, the shutdowns are having bad consequences for a lot of businesses. There is a pandemic after all, and pandemics cause negative consequences.

> mounting evidence that mask mandates don't work and/or make the problem worse

I'm sure such studies exist, but there are plenty that contradict your claim, and I do not believe there is a trend in your direction. There are also people who believe condoms not only doesn't reduce the spread of AIDS but makes it worse [1]. Otherwise smart people can believe also sorts of outrageous stuff if it comports with their existing belief system.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-co...

>Where are they being jailed? None in the US that I know of

It is happening in the US, you just haven't heard of it. https://www.krtv.com/news/crime-and-courts/sheriff-slaughter...

>I'm sure such studies exist, but there are plenty that contradict your claim, and I do not believe there is a trend in your direction

I'm interested in these studies you mention, can you share them? I shared 25 different studies below that support my assertion.

The article you linked to was jailed for not listening to the judge. Yes, it was about his refusal to wear a mask in the court. But if someone in court talks while the judge talks and the judge commands them to be silent, the judge can jail that person for refusal to be quiet. Or if they eat in court and refuse to stop eating. Or any number of things that are completely legal outside the courtroom.

So that is a bad example.

Do you have evidence of the claim that mask mandates don't work? Not trolling - I'm genuinely interested. My understanding was that masks worked to reduce transmission.

Here is a list of 24 published papers that demonstrate lockdowns not working, in various forms including mask mandates. https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-do-not-control-the-co...

Here is a new study (not published) that suggests mask mandates are counterproductive https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1340725086278434821?s...

Would be nice if the mainstream media covered any of this.

Thanks for the reading. I'm checking it out now.

Except if you read the papers they aren't saying that. You are trying to spread BS here. We can take a look at China where the lockdown worked quiet well.

>Official data from Germany’s RKI agency suggest strongly that the spread of the coronavirus in Germany receded autonomously, before any interventions became effective

>From both sets of modelling, we found that closure of education facilities, prohibiting mass gatherings and closure of some non-essential businesses were associated with reduced incidence whereas stay at home orders and closure of all non-businesses was not associated with any independent additional impact

>Conclusions: A national lockdown has a moderate advantage in saving lives

AIER is a libertarian think tank which exists solely to reduce any type of government "interference" in freedom. I don't trust them to be honest arbiters of science -- their sole angle is people and companies should be free to do whatever they want (including infecting other people apparently).

Yes, you provided a link to a site which has links to 24 other papers. Providing proof in this case required you to cut and past a URL; you are asking me to read and rebut 24 papers, and I'm not about to. However, I did look them up and the wikipedia article about them [1] said the scientific community has condemned their positions on COVID, which is herd immunity -- everyone should get sick, we should live with 3M deaths in the US, so businesses can get back to selling stuff like normal.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Institute_for_Economi...

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