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Comment by thinkingemote | Hacker News Reader

Re Scotland, I suspect that the EU made some concessions to make them leaving less likely. On the whole the EU doesn't like countries becoming independent (Catalonia, for example) of their parent country. Coherence is key for the EU

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I completely disagree. The EU remained silent during the Scottish independence referendum in 2014 because they didn't want to be seen to be publicly undermining the UK government, but since relations have soured they've been pretty open to say that Scotland would be welcomed back into the EU and that it already meets the requirements.

Not to say that Scotland rejoining the EU would be a massive moral victory for the EU over England.

Disagree with your final point.

The last thing the EU wants is disruption - ever. They want clear, stable operations backed by huge bureaucracy.

They'll be glad Brexit is over so they can just get on with BAU. The ordeal of an independent Scotland forming and applying to join would be a huge disruption.

The EU may be a bureaucracy, but it isn’t a huge one. Its budget is too small for that.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/transparency/fa...:

“At some €148 billion (2019 figure), the EU budget is in fact smaller than the budgets of Austria or Belgium.

This was a tiny fraction (2%) of the combined national budgets of all EU countries (€7,524 billion) in 2019.”

The EU bureaucracy is at a higher level, like the Euro Working Group made up of financial ministers from EU countries.

There is a LOT of red tape involved in getting stuff done.

> it already meets the requirement

I wonder whether that is actually true, isn't the state budget coming in significant part from the UK? I wonder how would that be stacked against Maastricht treaty parameters

There's also the pound which Scotland uses.

So you disagree that the EU doesn't want Catalonia to be independent. Just like with Scotland they are not encouraging it.

Or they are just biding their time?

Really relevant point. EU wants deeper integration, the last thing it needs is a second independent nation with a land border to the UK.

That doesn't make any sense. An independent Scotland would likely join the EU and thus become more integrated with it.

Yeah but it would be really disruptive to the EU. I imagine they just want to get on with usual business now brexit is 'done with'.

Why would it be more disruptive that any other country that have integrated the union before ?

Because the new country joining has a land border with the UK which wont be legislated for whatsoever in the brexit trade deal.

So? The EU had other land borders with non EU countries. There are 25 road crossings between England and Scotland compared to 300 between NI and ROI and no GFA to sustain.

So it creates a lot of admin work for the EU and disruption to their business as usual.

No need to be so hostile, just making the point.

It doesn't create any new admin work, unless Scotland tries to get some special deal. In which case they might well reuse the Irish framework.

It would be a walk in the park and a total propaganda victory for the EU. The only real obstacle was the "meddling in internal state affairs" argument, but that's just gone out of the window now that the UK is a third country. Now Scotland is more like Kosovo or Boznia was - a territory that would be a useful addition to the EU market once it's dislodged from the controlling entity.

Scotland would need a special deal though, at least for a reasonable transition period.

I actually think Scotland should have its own independence, so I'd be happy to see it. Would be a massive arse ache for everyone involved, though - probably worse than brexit based on how deeply integrated the England and Scotland are.

> worse than brexit based on how deeply integrated the England and Scotland are

I think you are underestimating how much the UK and the EU were effectively integrated.

It would create no work for the EU whatsoever. Like every sovereign country in the union Scotland would be in charge of policing its own border with the UK and ensuring that regulations are properly applied as it would be if Scotland left the UK without being a member of the EU.

The EU continues to have a "Common Travel Area" agreement and land border between Ireland (in the EU) and the UK (now not).

It would not be disruptive to extend the existing rules to an independent Scotland.

Your comment is the exact definition of a false premise: the use of an incorrect proposition (Catalonia is or was a country) that forms the basis of an argument (the EU doesn't like countries becoming independent).

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