India’s booming dark data economy
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Not long ago, a woman could go to a police station, give a complaint against her husband and family, and her husband, his relatives, even those living in other cities or even states had to be put in jail. There were numerous cases where educated urban women had their in laws families, including aging grandmothers put in jail, that was widely amplified by the media. This law, numbered 498a, wreaked havoc in the nation. The law was non bailable and once applied, cannot be withdrawn, even if the complainant wants to do so.
So you had a situation where, some urban women misused this law, causing whole families to be put in jail, without even as much as a preliminary enquiry, leading to chaos and a sure shot way for the marriage to breakdown. In a country where going to jail holds a lot of social stigma, no husband would ever want to reconcile with a wife who sent him to jail.
The law was, in intent, aimed at protecting vulnerable women, and in that intent, if used correctly, acts as a powerful deterrent to domestic violence, especially in rural areas.
However, for almost a decade, it was mainly used by urban and semi urban, educated women as a revenge tactic. The results in conviction rates, less than 5% for these cases, and the rapid increase in their numbers, lead to calls for reform. About 2 years back, the Supreme Court of India gave judgements & directed police departments to stop automatic arrests in such cases and only to make arrests after detailed enquiry. It observed that the intent of law was to reconcile and rehabilitate broken marriages due to domestic violence, but has now become a tool to harass husbands.
No wonder the society and men, especially ones with assets and reputations to lose, started to resort to such measures to protect themselves from false cases.
Edit : I would also like to add that normal divorce laws are also skewed towards women. They get favorable rulings in alimony, asset distribution, etc. Many of these 498a cases ended up being petty quarrels, where the wife wants to exact revenge, this was observed by Supreme Court too. The women did get their revenge by making their husband's families churn through the Indian court systems which are notorious for being slow and draining people financially, however, over-zealous usage and application of the law lead to dilution of a powerful law against those who actually suffer from domestic violence.
[0] https://quillette.com/2019/04/16/divorce-and-the-silver-bull...
I'm lucky my turn came after the supreme Court ruling you mentioned. Me or my family was not arrested, but we still had to shell up about 30,000 USD to my in laws, which was money will spent to be honest (as they agreed to give me full custody of my daughter).
I could have prevented all this my bugging my ex's phone. Why? Because it all happened so suddenly. Everything came down raining without even a hint from my ex. If I had a little bit intelligence of what she was cooking up, I could have even saved the marriage.
I could sympathize until here. If you can't trust your partner why marry them in the first place? I find it hard to believe there weren't signs of things going wrong before she slapped a case on you.
There are a lot of nuances here, than just trust before marriage.
Many of the marriages are arranged ones, where the families arrange and negotiate the marriage. If the woman is not satisfied with any aspect of the marriage, some of them resort to these tactics to get rid of the husband.
Of course, there are those who actually suffer and are rescued by this law, but those are few and far between.
1. Free money. 2. Free sympathy from the society. 3. Feeling of revenge.
Remember that marriages for divorced women are extremely difficult in India. If the woman was separated from the husband, "as a victim", they have a better chance, especially if she is young.
However, due to severe misuse of the law, now the situation is such that any woman even as much linked to a court case regarding marriage issues, is effectively shunned from marriage.
And this affects genuine victims a lot.
People often marry under family and peer pressure. In such cases, trust becomes secondary. And many people realize it late that marriage is first and foremost a legal contract. Everything else comes after that.
How could a marriage be saved when one person has plotted to falsely imprison the other, while extorting them for money?
1. Someone important to your beloved tries to convince your beloved of X.
2. Because trust extends in both directions between your beloved and you, your beloved tells you, "Someone important to me said to do X."
3. Because your beloved has agency, they follow that statement with something like, "I told them that this is what I think of X."
4. A conversation among two mature adults ensues, with the full range of human emotions in play.
You can do high-tech problem solving with 20/20 hindsight until you drive yourself crazy. But if you didn't have two-way trust, or at least one party didn't realize have adult-level agency, it wasn't a healthy relationship and you should move on to one that is
An arranged marriage does not a healthy relationship make.
You can't fish someone out of the mob without them actively wanting to get out, and that requires the person start by relying on their own agency.
Look at the Nxivm cult-- a member was literally starving herself to death and even her own mom had to spend years patiently working with cult deprogrammers before she could convince her to leave (and on threat of FBI prosecution, at that).
Not only is it ineffectual to try to force that person back to sanity-- it's literally counterproductive. It plays into the mob's hand-- an outsider is trying to convince so-and-so to become a rat! You're not a rat, are you, so-and-so?
I'm sorry OP has to go through the heartache of coming to terms with this, if that is indeed anything like what they're going through. But I have to admit to being less concerned with your and OP's blanket warning about Indian families, and vastly more concerned that you and OP apparently think a broad statement like that could somehow justify tapping a loved one's phone. On HN of all places.
To be crystal clear-- if that mom of the Nxivm cult member had actually bugged her daughter's phone at any point in the saga, it would have shattered her trust with her mom and made it impossible for her to ever leave. You get that, right?
Case in point but with an (white) American family. I had a friend whose dad was welshing out on child support for his sisters. My (adult) friend called up a bunch of his dad's clients (he was a contractor) and calmly left messages explaining the situation. His dad paid up but also slapped him with a restraining order and they didn't talk for a decade. I mean being able to threaten going nuclear like that, not necessarily tapping phones, should be par for the course.
At least to exist as an options. "Sure you can do this, but I can do this other thing "
https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2018/apr/30/k...
https://www.deccanherald.com/national/east-and-northeast/wom...
https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi-news/woman-threw-acid-o...
https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/aligarh-19-year-old-gi...
https://zeenews.india.com/india/woman-throws-acid-on-ex-boyf...
About a generation ago, till 2000s, married women used to get killed by in laws by getting poured kerosene oil. Story pushed was always that she was using kerosene oil stove, & oil tank exploded. Too common that songs were written in protest questioning how kerosene stove knows its the daughter in law? Why its always daughter in law? In songs girls used to request her father to not give her a stove as gift. Popularity of LPG gas, electric & such pushed kerosene away, & those cases almost now are unheard of.
In particular I find a lot of people Think of "marriage" as an external event driven thing - a ceremony, a signing, the guests, potentially the name change, and of course the laws and such.
Anyhoo, Do you essentially propose that no two people who trust each other would marry, and if so, why?
It feels like such a strongly universal statement that it cannot possible hold true...
But I do think at the end it all boils down to trust. If marriege was not an external event, then why the ceremony? The rings? Etc? It's full of symbolism describing and alluding to your responsibilities and how you're going to be judged for not abiding to them.
So yes, in a world where two people have total trust, and society is more lenient in it's pressuring of norms marriege would be obsolete.
The partner is like an insider-threat from a security pov. Doing OpSec against a spouse is IMO impossible because the whole point of a romantic partner is to have somebody one can trust.
Some people will never believe love+trust should be the pillars of a relationship because that's not the model/framework they learned from their own parents.
The expectation is that it's only a matter of time for said partner to let them down (like they have seen it by their own parents in childhood). It's a self-fulfilling prophecy almost.
My ex tried to finish me off by forging signatures on some of my cheques (an old cheque-book she knew belongs to a closed account that book actually should have been destroyed by me), lies-lies-more lies, manipulate our kids with tactics such as repeatedly mentioning events that never happened ... She also became quickly physically violent so I had to call 911 a few times because I was terrified of further escalation (she would attempt to start physical fights by running to the kitchen to grab a knife ...
Getting rid of this abuse has costed me the relationship to my kids (they had been told by my spouse I was too lazy to bring them to school when in fact I was having severe PTSD/depression, and was not only unable to drive but also unable to walk from my bedroom to the kitchen to prepare a meal).
Another example was when I stood across the room making a cup of tea when she started screaming my son's name asking him to come quick and help. I was so confused that I didn't know what was happening - she literally told him I beat her and she needs his protections when I was at least 9ft away from her. I couldn't believe what happened at the time but now many years later know the purpose was to implant false memories. I never beat a woman in my whole life because it goes against everything I stand for. ... I have dozens of little horrible anecdotes just like this ...
Some relationship reach a point from which they never return. Others should have never happened in the first place. Hard to tell which is which (or what is healthy or correct) when you've run from abusive parents yourself. The correct (positive) reference model is not missing - it's totally incorrect.
India adds another twist: arranged marriages do not put value on love+romance before the wedding. It might all fall in place after a while but it's not a precondition.
Citation needed for this claim.
There a 100,000 498A cases a year - 13% of cases ended in conviction [1]. It is hard to say how many of the remaining 87% were "false".
[1] https://factly.in/the-conviction-rate-of-sec-498a-cases-fall...
Note that India does not have a robust tradition of out-of-court settlement etc.
Conviction rates are misleading. They do not shed light on how and why these IPC clauses are invoked.
Another oncoming danger is POCSO - parents might use child molestation clauses against each other in civil disputes like divorce. See a recent judgment of Kerala High Court related to this instructing lawyers not to invoke this clause for frivolous purposes:
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/pocso-convicti...
https://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/laws/sc-directions-misuse-...
Important points quoted verbatim below
"a) That the allegations against all relatives of the husband cannot be taken at face value when in normal course it may only be the husband or at best his parents who may be accused of demanding dowry or causing cruelty and in order to check abuse of over implication, clear supporting material needs to be produced to proceed against other relatives of a husband"
"b) That there has been a growing tendency to abuse the said provision to rope in all the relatives including parents of advanced age, minor children, siblings, grand-parents and uncles on the strength of vague and exaggerated allegations without there being any verifiable evidence of physical or mental harm or injury which several times results in harassment and even arrest of innocent family members, including women and senior citizens."
"c)That misuse of Section 498A has also been judicially acknowledged in several cases."
"d) That in respect of relatives who are ordinarily residing outside India, the matter should proceed only if the Investigation Officer is convinced that arrest is necessary for fair investigation and In such cases impounding of passport or issuance of red corner notice should be avoided."
"e) That provision of counseling under Section 14 of the Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act, 2005, should be made mandatory before registration of a case under Section 498A ."
So women would simply provide a list of accused, and those living outside the home were purported to have directed her husband and in-laws over phone, linking them to her harrassment.
Also there is no codified torts, etc, causing people to seek remedies through criminal law and intimidation etc.
Same reason why Singapore has an anti-homosexuality law that is still propped up by Christian fanatics in govt.
Usually, when such old structures survive, it is because of concrete people and interest groups who want to keep them alive. And this is more of a domestic problem than a (ex-)colonial one.
In my country, compulsory identification cards were introduced by Nazis during the occupation. All subsequent regimes, including the democratic ones, kept them: too useful to scrap. But it would be misleading to say that we can "thank" Hitler for having cards in our pockets. We could have scrapped them if we wanted to, like we scrapped many other regulations and laws from that cursed era. We didn't.
Won't tort legislation overwhelm India's already overburdened court system?
However, knowledge and applicability of the law is not fully understood in rural areas, the ones where domestic violence is a more pressing issue. Not that urban areas have less scope of DV, but that in urban areas, there are more options to the victim and a lot less social stigma.
Things are changing now. Due to prevalence of internet and penetration of mobiles and cheap smartphones into all strata of society, women are more knowledgeable than ever.
Rape and sexual assaults are issues that are, in my view, a universal issue, with only change between various countries in the world being the degree of reporting and recourse.
Even in that area, India is changing. Social stigma for reporting rape is very low in urban areas and rapidly reducing in rural areas. Women are more willing to report it and society is less stigmatic towards it.
One of the reason why there is constant news of rape.
The fact that have no better option B might have something to do with it too. Like in western countries: sure you can arrest your scumbag husband that beats you but then what?
Basically, it's all about the choice and circumstances the woman has and is in.
But there are many rapes, that are not reported, or if reported, the victim seldom gets justice because of dragging in courts, etc.
And, in any judicial system, solid evidence is required, so rape of a woman in a field, at night, where she might not even remember the faces of her assaulters, might not have enough evidence, apart from circumstantial ones (in cases where the assaulters escaped), leading to no justice to her.
https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/in-4-days-nirbhaya-rap...
This system is skewed towards women and it has a very low conviction rate too. A waste of tax money. Courts are flooded with DV cases according to StatCan.
And without hard evidence the system will naturally skew towards protecting the physically weaker partner.
These women's life are OVER not ruined. And the physical reality of violence is heavily skewed towards males.
Reality is complicated.
I dont trust you at all
And that is because they needed to be.
- Indian women are still viewed by many family as a burden because of the pervasive dowry culture in indian society.
- Indian women are also expected to be a housewife / homemaker after she has kids and look after everyone's needs while being totally dependent on her husband / in-laws.
- Indian women are expected to give birth to sons.
- Most of them are married off between the age of 16-20 (18 is the legal age limit in India), sometimes even before they complete high school. (Child marriages are common too, but are reducing).
All these factors means that they are very vulnerable to the negative elements of indian society (of which there are many because it is a country of a billion+ people). The dowry factor means there is an incentive to not only harass woman for more money but also to get rid of them and marry again to get more dowry. (Before these laws were passed it was quite common to hear about wives being brutally abused and even killed for dowry. It still happens).
This is also why even the divorce laws are "skewed" in favour of the women in India. While indian men can re-marry more easily, indian women can't - indian society considers them as "damaged goods" because "she doesn't know how to keep a family together" (yes, the whole burden is only on her!).
More importantly, men view these divorce laws as "skewed" because of the alimony they have to pay. They feel outraged at the amount they have to pay to someone whom they now consider at the level of a "maid", rather than recognizing the sacrifice the women makes to be a house wife / home maker (a sacrifice that is sometimes forced upon her by society).
Indian laws are correcting the imbalance of power between a man and a woman in indian society. Sure, women are no saints. But they certainly are more than the men in India. (I know because I too am an indian guy who still has a tough time wrapping his head around how to perceive and treat women with what traditions and society expect from me vs the healthy respectful way).
In India, Privacy has lost much meaning.
1. Government mandates everyone to have Aadhaar card . In Aadhar card application form, there is option towards "sharing of data with third party" . Most People do tick that option. If they don't tick,there are chances that officers(mostly in bank where they take photo and biometric details of applicant) themselves tick that and apply for aadhar card.
2) Many colleges sell Students' Info, Phone number, Address for money. We get direct calls from coaching centre who didn't at all had our phone number.
3) When you buy something (say Domain name in Indian company),there are chances that they sell your information across many corporate interests without your consent.
Here's a fun experiment. Create a temporary email or an email alias & register it on naukri.com & watch your inbox get flooded with non-job related emails.
And here's another one, go to a local store for porting your sim, and receive a ton of calls for loan & credit cards (which unfortunately is quite common).
Data is sold in India by almost every entity.
So now a days guys tend to get some evidences by some spy tech filing divorce or clearing doubts.
Females are also scammed by guys after all analysis as well. People somehow tens to hide their loans and make their partners pay it off.
Regarding data, it can be got from anywhere. In the roadside store where people recharge mobiles, shopkeeper notes down names and number and address, that info can be bought. Nowadays easiest place in matrimony sites and from people who work there that's actually rich data where people describe about their family, status and groom or brides salary. Every year there data leakage from govt and private mobile companies with aadhaar details.
Hiring detectives are old school and works, some rich people do before marriage and social media analysis.
Equifax survived leaking all that data. That still amazes me. Roughly 1 in 3 Americans had their PII leaked and they suffered minimal fines. Minimal in the fact that they certainly haven't been impacted operationally. If the laws can't punish that level of breach, they aren't going to punish the small potato sized ones either.
On one hand we have companies selling spyware for unlawful data collection (like wiretapping). On the other hand Equifax collects the data through partnerships and data-sharing arrangements that (whilst opaque to essentially all consumers) is generally well-regulated.
GDPR, the APPs and CCPA may curtail another Equifax incident but outright-illegal data collection needs a different solution.
Their primary source of income is w.r.t marriages, but it is not just investigating the background of groom/bride, they are involved in sabotaging love (planting fake evidence, honey trap etc.) usually due to inter-caste/inter-faith relationships in the name of 'Investigating love cheats'.
Here is an interview by Neil Patel of one such Private Investigation 'Startup', where the founder proudly claims to ruin relationships on behalf of her clients (Parents of the couple in love) and Neil just laughs it off - https://open.spotify.com/episode/4TfTitGyHkcXrJJmiJBzFy
Unfortunately to compensate against, the laws became extremely pro-women which were abused in many cases. Compounded on it the fact that majority marriages in India are arranged by caste, financial status of the families.
https://twitter.com/kingslyj/status/1172737012316590080
The Indian national id called the AADHAR leaks like a sieve and the government insists that is not the case.
https://thewire.in/government/aadhaar-remains-an-unending-se...
As AADHAR is linked to all sorts of services which users can access, it reveals a whole lot about users - including details such as their bank account numbers and in some cases even transactions.
In one case, data for over 130 million AADHAR numbers was leaked: https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/aadhaar-data...
People have been caught selling this data for as little as Rs.500 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-42575443
Some of the people who are managing these things are totally incompetent and refuse to face facts. They have given stupid challenges to hackers and have had to face embarrassing exposes but they still refuse to acknowledge the problems:
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/trai-chiefs-aadhar-da...
That apart, state governments have been sharing voter data surreptitiously with political parties.
https://www.newsclick.in/Telangana-MLC-Polls-Voters-Allege-P...
Before you get on one of these cabs .. there are two airport officials (or contractors) who make you write your name and phone number and destination (in the name of accountability or security)
I am 90% certain (through grapevine) that that data is sold ..
The downside is that it naturalizes the abuses and make them morally justified.
Solved problem since Nam.
People spend time, money, effort on things important to them.
Things can't be important if they're not on someone's radar.