1.7M premature deaths annually from air pollution in India | Hacker News Reader

1.7M premature deaths annually from air pollution in India

thelancet.com

62 pointsonecommentman24 comments

Speaking personally my life was hell when I was in delhi (it was ncr Ghaziabad) but the situation was so bad that my eyes were constantly red and one of my friends who had asthma had to wear a mask inside home.

Unfortunately despite a lot of efforts by the govt (like odd even cars, washing trees with firetrucks, etc) the situation was still very bad when I left it because of this very reason.

The major contributing factor was crop stubble burning by adj states which now the govt is trying to ban against a lot of resistance from the people (shrug)

> ban against a lot of resistance from the people (shrug).

Actually, it is not the people but the farmers resisting crop burning.

OTOH, the people have resisted odd-even cars and firecrackers, and the central government ministers flouted these openly.

60% of the indian population works in the agricultural sector.

People = Farmers.

I realise this is an area where exact data is probably not available, but this site [0] says 41.49% of the workforce were employed in agriculture.

I've also seen a few pages claiming it's 60%, would like to know which source is more authoritative.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/271320/distribution-of-t...

Largest source of pollution is not even cars but the farmers burning stubble in nearby states. Now, the entire agriculture in these states is subsidized by government heavily. It is not very difficult to offer more subsidies to actually manually remove the stubble instead of burning it, but there is a lot of resistance from various groups for this.

You don’t have to do it manually nor do you require labour. There are no till/no burn methods to using seed drills .. but .. https://www.thequint.com/news/india/air-pollution-in-delhi-n...

[..] A happy seeder is a machine that helps farmers get rid of the crop residue without burning the straw. Hence it is considered the answer to the issue of stubble burning that is one of the biggest contributions to pollution in and around Delhi-NCR. The happy seeder not only removes residue but also allows the farmer to seed the new crop without involving manual labour. It is usually mounted on the back of a tractor. Typically, in the month of October, a farmer sows wheat while removing paddy straw in the process. However, despite the government subsidising happy seeders, not many farmers want to use the machine. Here’s why: 1) ‘Single Happy Seeder Can’t Till Land Beyond 8 Acres Per Day’ 2) Govt Subsidy Not Enough 3) Potato Growers Can’t Rely on Machine 4) Big Tractors Not Available 5) Moisture in Stubble Forces Farmers to Partially Burn It [..]

You know..there are solutions. Small acreage farm automation as a service. Unless India steps up and stops farming like they used to..it’s going to get ugly.

But I can’t even get small acreage robots going here in the US..so I am really the last person who should be thinking about this.

Stubble-burning contributes only for a short period of time during early winter. Granted, it is a significant contributor (over 40% this year) during this time. But Delhi's pollution is plenty bad over the rest of the year as well.

The pollution in Delhi is like nothing I have seen anywhere else on Earth. Honestly, during my business trip there I couldn't wait to leave because feeling like the air is actively trying to kill you, all the time, is a horrible feeling.

I concur. The pollution becomes evident at the airport, inside the hall you already see and smell the smog and you are still inside a building. Going outside you think you're in the middle of a wildfire.

We've HVAC at our place in Delhi, population is only a problem for poor people.

God forbid you ever want to go outside, not run aircon all day or happen to be poor

Bubbles of privilege are never a real solution to endemic societal issues. What will you do when you don't even have any electricity to run the HVAC on?

In most third-world regions with similar pollution people don't even have a reliable electric power grid.

There are alternatives to stubble burning, but the farmers don’t use it.

https://www.dw.com/en/india-pollution-how-a-farming-revoluti...

[..] With one ton of residue containing 4-6 kg of nitrogen, 1-2 kg of phosphorus, and 15-20 kg of potassium, CIMMYT's research has shown that residue burning not only releases toxic gases into the air, but also reduces soil nutrition and therefore crop yields. Burning the residue "means you are burning a lot of nutrients, basically," says Dr Jat. He argues that India now needs to undergo a second, "evergreen" revolution, driven by technology such as the happy seeder, a machine which allows wheat to be sown on top of rice stubble, and the super sms (straw management system), a machine which attaches to the rear of a combine harvester to cut and spread loose residue across the field.[..]

Its mostly Punjabi farmers stubble burning, they also use much more pesticide per sq m, than others farms in India.

repeating the mistakes of other countries :(

The legacy of ‘green revolution’.

There isn’t this problem in the south. Traditionally the rice bowl. India used to grow rice according to the monsoons. Rice was grown twice a year. The vindhya range was a buffer and bought rains from monsoon clouds. I don’t think it’s even feasible to grow rice at this scale in northern indian. It’s more wheat country.

Indian farmers with tractors and GMO seeds and followed by pesticides and herbicides have been made to feel like super farmers and especially bolstered by green revolution.

The green revolution was a disaster. It is NOT possible to increase yields without causing imbalance in the eco system, resource availability and resultant domino change/impact.

This is all very tragic. The green revolution was a quick shot in the arm. Coaxing increased yields from soil should be used as an emergency measure..like a shot in the arm during times of need. It’s not sustainable over long periods of time supporting billions.

It gives the false security of abundance and the underlying system will collapse because the soil is a living organism. It cannot bear this chemical warfare we are waging upon it.

The whole Coronavirus thing is insignificant compared to much bigger and long term problems like pollution

Lockdowns should be done every time pollution is too high

Most of it gets worse because farmers in Punjab are stubble burning and that gets swept across. They have been told many times not to, but they keep doing it.

Something is up with the Indian subcontinent and their absolute inability to just compromise and do the right thing as a people. Things as simple as traffic laws.

Where does this come from? It can’t simply be because they are poor or uneducated since you’re probably talking about the same demographic classes as you would see in China.

Case in point: https://preview.redd.it/okb67xgbae561.jpg?auto=webp&s=175968...

Would it kill them to listen? Every major social issue seems to have an anti-authority element to it.

Whose behaviour are you describing as 'anti-authority' in that image? It looks to me like the vehicles are parked in the bicycle lane (no driver in the car?) so the cyclists have been forced into the road to go around them. Something I've encountered frequently enough myself as a non-Indian in the UK.

How many would die from other reasons if there was less economic development? Does India have emissions control regulations.

I just read the headline, but I feel like Karma is beginning to hit them back. They bred like rats for decades, and continue to do so, leading to extreme overpopulation, leading in turn to extreme pollution. In the end, there's only so much population a territory can support before individuals start dying off. Whether this is by starvation or air pollution, it all originates from the same issue. They really need to start working on birth control.

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against indians. Would this happen anywhere else (and it is) my reaction would be identical.

Sorry, China has just as large of a population and played the infrastructure game way better. It’s not a population problem, it’s a lack ingenuity and power-house organizing capability. I’ve alluded in a lower post that if we’re to be prejudiced in anyway against Indians, it would be to attribute an anti-social dynamic that is making the larger society dysfunctional (as it would a single individual). I’m comfortable with this prejudice because it’s something you can change.

Follow the rules and think about the impact you have for the love of god.

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