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Comment by reportingsjr | Hacker News Reader

There are not anti-automobile people on here. There are people who are sick of cars being pushed as the /only/ way for things to be done. Almost every person you see advocating for better safety for pedestrians, people biking, etc understands that cars are necessary for some things. It just doesn't need to be forced for literally every small thing.

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there are at least a few commenters here who repeatedly advocate for banning cars altogether in cities. if not "anti-automobile", how would you describe this position?

That almost exclusively refers to largely limiting personal cars, it doesn't include service vehicles, delivery automobiles, etc (so construction vans and trucks, ambulances, etc are still allowed).

Much more info on the car free city center concept at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfree_city

tbh I don't actually disagree with banning personal cars in very dense city centers. but I have to say it is a special sort of linguistic backflip to not call this position "anti-automobile".

Why try to tribalize this? I explained how a lot of people feel, and that there is a bit of a spectrum in what people want.

It really feels like you're trying to make this an "us vs. them" situation negatively, rather than understanding that it's people wanting safer, healthier, more enjoyable places to live by means of reducing car dependence.

Perhaps that's where we are in making sure the overton window doesn't cede ground to vested interests; only the extreme alternative as a starting point if negotiations of whats possible are being made.

"reasonable".

Calling someone "anti-something" makes them sound one-sided and hostile.

I get what you're saying. And for what it's worth I do like the idea of making city centers more walkable and pedestrian friendly.

But based on some comments in this discussion there are absolutely anti-automobile people here and they are vocal. I just responded to someone calling a car a "murder machine".

Not that I disagree there's an anti car segment here (I'm personally very anti car) but a car can be (can not necessarily is) an effective murder machine. What other pieces of personal property does Western society openly embrace everyone owning but that can be used to murder people? I'm not saying that's the intent but when people call them murder machine the point they're raising (hyperbolically) is that cars and dangerous pieces of machinery and that has to be taken into account more when we consider urban design.

> What other pieces of personal property does Western society openly embrace everyone owning but that can be used to murder people?

knives would be the obvious answer, though they probably don't cause as much accidental carnage as cars.

That's the point. Cars have an unmatched level of potential damage compared to almost anything short of actual weapons. Insisting that drivers are careful in any areas where pedestrians might be and being strict about that isn't unreasonable.

I see what you're getting at, but I don't think this is a great way to show your point. a chef's knife is primarily a kitchen tool, but it makes for a much more effective weapon than a car. the thing that makes cars somewhat unique is their potential for unintentional damage.

> Insisting that drivers are careful in any areas where pedestrians might be and being strict about that isn't unreasonable.

sure, but this is a vague statement that has no real teeth. everyone agrees that drivers ought to try not to hit pedestrians. what gets fiercely debated is how civil (and possibly criminal) liability ought to be apportioned.

> What other pieces of personal property does Western society openly embrace everyone owning but that can be used to murder people?

Knives. Belts. Ropes. Electrical cords. Hammers. Chairs. Frying pans. Scissors. Etc., Etc., Etc., as nauseum, ad infinitum.

Indeed, more murders are committed in the US with hands, fists, and feet than rifles.

This in turn is dwarfed by the deaths caused by automobiles!

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