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Comment by ognarb | Hacker News Reader

> we both felt secure that the free software movement is progressive, and cares about being inclusive and equal opportunities oriented.

Unfortunately it has been proved very often that this is not true. This is not the first case of racism and sexisme in FOSS and probably won't.

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FOSS is made up of humans. A large number (perhaps all - take this as a personal warning) are downright nasty to some other groups of humans.

I always thought FOSS should be about software and bringing smart people together. It is starting to look like a political movement that isn't about software at all. This post is so self centered I can't take it seriously. ''' “why do you refer to dates in this format and not in that format”, while there is no office policy on following a particular date standard '''. Date format is super important...

Free Software "starting to look like a political movement"? Political advocacy is a large part of what its organizations do, and has been for a long time.

Are you trying to say that the /Free Software Foundation/ is somehow not political? The GPL people?? Or is "political movement" defined here as "women and minorities asking for fair treatment?"

yeah sure. fyi I am a male and I got treated similarly in by my previous employer. I also was able to find a person on similar position who makes more than me. There also was a person who made less than me. This isn't anti woman behavior just typical HR stuff and cost optimization. "Pay as little as possible". I couldn't play the woman or the race card. IT job market is very fluid. If her skills are valuable enough she will get the pay she deserves. Her blog post is less credible than Giulani's polling witness Mellisa Carone. This is not "women and minorities asking for fair treatment". This is a "women and minorities demanding privileged treatment under the threat of making an internet sensation and ruining someone's life with false accusations".

> Our efforts coincided with the resignation of Richard Stallman from the US-based sister organisation of FSFE due to careless revictimisation of female victims of sexual abuse- another gender discrimination issue in our community that would cause the situation in our office to deteriorate quickly.

The casual misrepresentation of this saga also makes me skeptical of the authors viewpoint.

This comment is so self-contradictory I can't take it seriously.

Your own exactly correct observation of the super importance of a date format (in most situations) expresses exactly one of the things that validate the overall complaint.

This means, there is some other unstated reason you dismiss the complaint. Because your stated reason actually supports it.

> This is not the first case of racism and sexisme in FOSS and probably won't.

The fish rots from the head down, and apart from Stallman (which is mentioned in the article) I for myself would personally add Torvalds to that same conversation (even though with a little less overt sexism, but definitely with more bullying).

But because Torvalds's project has had an incredible ROI, i.e. it has made lots of people lots of money (heck, I for myself only started learning Python 17 years ago because I had a Linux distro easily at hand) his position is pretty much safe for the time being.

Torvalds is interesting because of his recent attempts to be better. He took time off, got therapy, and wants to change.

Even if he's not as successful as we all hope, I can respect that he is trying.

Some folks just like being a jerk, and want to enjoy continuing to do so.

It has been proven very often that the good intension of people like Stallman that devoted their life to the cause have been hijacked by people that used FOSS to find employment in big corporations and infiltrated committees and standard bodies to keep pushing their employers' agenda.

No one can seriously believe that there exists an organisation that is completely free from tensions between members, sometimes people simply make mistakes, what counts is how the organisation react and the proportion.

If the fish rots from the head, what should we think about Apple where Steve Jobs was known for bullying and terrorising employees for no real reason?

Big tech in US have been condemned for the infamous no-hire agreement in SV After a class action filed on behalf of roughly 60,000 workers (sixty thousands).

For instance, after a Google recruiter solicited an Apple employee, Schmidt told Jobs that the recruiter would be fired, court documents show. Jobs then forwarded Schmidt’s note to a top Apple human resources executive with a smiley face.

That's the real issue nowadays in FOSS, not the lack of human perfection.

Nothing even remotely similar has ever happened inside the FSF, apart when they assaulted Stallman over a fabricated issue and forced him to resign

I could make names, but I don't want a shadow ban from HN, suffice to say that some of these people work at Google .

> No one can seriously believe that there exists an organisation that is completely free from tensions between members, sometimes people simply make mistakes, what counts is how the organisation react and the proportion

True, but if cases like this happens, then there should be an investigation.

> I could make names, but I don't want a shadow ban from HN, suffice to say that some of these people work at Google .

You are using a newly created (6 days old) account anyways.

> True, but if cases like this happens, then there should be an investigation.

Did somebody ask to the FSFE?

I didn't so I can't honestly take sides on this.

But as a long time donor and former member of the chaos computer club (when I lived in Berlin) I will write to them to ask for more information.

> You are using a newly created (6 days old) account anyways.

I use anonymity to protect myself from retaliation, it happened in the past, it's been bad, but I've learned my lessons.

Anyway it shouldn't be too hard to check if some actual or former Google employee was in the FSF (against Stallman) and my claims are true or a lie.

Torvalds isn't a bully, he's very realistic and stern. Sometimes code really is unnecessary garbage. Software engineering is real engineering and linux is used by serious organisations. Contributing code to Linux is like laying your own concrete on top of the burj khalifa.

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