9k-Year-Old Stonehenge-Like Structure Found Under Lake Michigan
archaeology-world.com
archaeology-world.com
https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-...
> Sadly, much of the information out there is incorrect. For example, there is not a henge associated with the site and the individual stones are relatively small when compared to what most people think of as European standing stones. It should be clearly understood that this is not a megalith site like Stonehenge.
That said, I can imagine that to a paleolithic hunter/gatherer it would be beneficial to use an arrangement of stones to "capture" a particular date. Dates of interest might be 'migration', 'planting', or 'harvesting' dates.
Setting up stones to cast a specific, and unique, shadow on a particular date is easy to do on that date. And I've done it on hiking trails for things like solstice dates for other hikers to discover later. Since the transformation of the shadow is predictable with motion of the Sun, I've also used it on trails where I experienced good conditions, so that when I come back to that trail, I can look at my 'date ducks' and they will tell me if it was earlier or later in the season when I set them up (assuming they haven't been moved of course).
This is almost always done by observing the behavior of local plants and animals. For example, you might say that spring starts after the cherry trees have bloomed -- an event which is obvious -- and start your planting then. The precise date will wander around the year, from an astronomical point of view, but it will generally be better chosen each year than any fixed astronomical date would be.
I don't build them myself because I don't have the patience (and dogs tend to make sitting still problematic :P), but I appreciate most every one I see for what it is: someone came to this same place I'm enjoying and did so in such a calm and focused manner, there are stacked rocks to show for it.
I can imagine that someone somewhere has built a massive cairn with disregard to the site and the other wanderers there. That person sucks.
You should be more hospitable in interpretation and use less passive wording. I agreed with someone else after hearing their point of view. Implying I'm a hapless sheep that agrees with whatever I'm told for that is going a bit far.
… I'm not sure this site is a reputable source.
No contact information. No authors listed for the articles. The only links in the article go to the biography of a small town TV reporter, and Wikipedia. No links to the original source material.
Looks like a content farm to me.
In other words, there's nothing to be explained, and if there were, Methane Clathrate wouldn't be it.
As an American we only learn fairly superficial details about the people who were here before us, because we know they existed but there’s just not a lot of historical record. Look up Cahokia, which was a massive city (at Cahokia’s peak it likely had more residents than London did at the same time). And yet all that remains is some piles of dirt.
The mound building civilizations of North America are fascinating to me, not the least of which is because of the pyramidal-mound structures of Central America.
The efforts by assorted tribes against archaeology culminated in NAGPRA, which has hamstrung researchers quite severely.
(Potential HN argument defuser: I'm not making a statement here on cultural values, merely observing that North American archaeology has an additional unique hurdle to understanding cultures of the past.)
1. There's a long history of what is best described as stealing by archaeologists/anthropologists for museums and as a means of colonial control (e.g. looting the Benin bronzes). We want to stay far away from even the appearance of that.
2. Regardless of whether it's logical or not, people can have significant emotional identification with artifacts, sites, and remains. That's a big part of why we want to study them at all. For instance, you'd probably be offended by archaeologists walking into your yard and digging up a loved one's remains, or stealing the constitution of your country, dynamiting St. Paul's Cathedral, etc without at least asking the relevant authorities.
3. In almost all cases, we don't need any individual site or artifact. There are entire databases full of known sites we've never gotten around to excavating, due to time, budget, remoteness, or lack of research questions and people to answer them. The academic value of having one more site or artifact is typically small, while there's a huge potential for harm to an often nebulous "someone". There have been cases where this math is different because of the circumstances of a particular find(e.g. kennewick man), but these are the exception rather than the rule.
4. Artifacts are always part of a wider record, and we as a community are going to have to work with this group in the future. If people are continually feeling screwed over when we don't consider their input, they'll eventually stop helping us (providing cultural input, labor, access to other artifacts/records, land access, legal permissions, they may involve the legal system etc). There are communities where this has already happened and lack of access to them has severely limited later academic work.
5. People with a relationship to the artifacts or remains often have a valuable perspective to contribute. "Academics" (who are not a unified group either) often do better work when they consider local input, and it can help to resolve ambiguous or unclear situations. One famous example came up in what's called the Magician's tomb at Ridge Ruin, where there was an unusually rich grave that the leading archaeologist had difficulty interpreting. He brought in some Hopi (distant descendants), who were able to identify and share how some of the goods would have been used in modern times, which helped contextualize the grave and provided a starting point for future discussions.
6. It's generally considered a human rights violation if the "not asking" is egregious enough.
7. If you don't involve the locals and show them what's up, they get distrustful. This can manifest as petty thievery, destruction of excavations-in-progress, legal issues, and grave robbing.
There are probably a lot more good reasons, but this is what immediately came to mind. What NAGPRA did was establish that this basic respect was required of everyone touching native artifacts, and that while researchers could still do work that benefited scientific understanding, they had to either justify that need or consult with the affected parties. It also did some other good things like establish procedures for repatriation, which certain institutions had been notoriously slow to do for themselves.
The horse in particular changed everything, and created the archetypical Buffalo hunting nomad of the Great Plains, a cultural arrangement that did not exist in North America before the introduction of the horse.
What's sad is that it's barely outside St. Louis and isn't a part of their tourist identity, despite basically being on top of one of the oldest settlements in North America.
Cahokia is actually among the newest settlements among North American civilization: it peaks around 1100, fully collapsing by around 1350. The earliest mound building site I'm aware of is Poverty Point, which begins to be built around 1800 BC. The Southwest cultures (e.g., Ancestral Pueblo) are developing clear settlements by around 750. Moving into Mesoamerica, Teotihuacan collapses sometime in the 500s, and dates back to perhaps 1-ish. Contemporary with them is the Classical Maya. San Lorenzo is the oldest Olmec center, dating back to 1200 BC-ish.
We've only fairly recently gotten to value antiquities I suppose. In the US anyway.
But we shall see...
Hard to imagine someone dedicated to pulling off a prank like that.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/aa/27/9daa2784a29d6e6ce755...
https://www.underwatersculpture.com/wp-content/galleries/hom...
https://theoutline.com/post/872/can-you-touch-the-statues-at...
Just look how beautiful it is:
https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2...
But no high-res pic of the real stone without "supper-imposed" lines.
Oh btw they found crystal pyramids:
https://archaeology-world.com/shock-claim-crystal-pyramids-f...
Oh and that:
https://archaeology-world.com/ancient-native-american-burial...
But what i see is a damaged cactus...not cool...thanks trump!
https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-...
> John O'Shea, professor and curator of the Great Lakes Archaeology at the University of Michigan in his laboratory on Oct. 14, 2020. In 2009, he published a research paper on discoveries of evidence of an ancient culture around the time of the last Ice Age, 10,000 years ago, submerged off the shore of Lake Huron around Alpena, Mich. in an area that would have been dry land at that time.
I realize the article is a mix of things. Unverified possible things along with more scientific details.
[1] https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/14/s...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
We only have solid data on that because there's oil and gas under the North Sea, so it has been surveyed rather thoroughly.
Unless you believe in people maintaining memories of mastodons for 1800 years, or pareidolia finding an image not really there, we are talking about a structure much older than 9000 years.
Then the Spring sun warms the water, it reacts with the limestone at the bottom and causes large white swirls through the water. I've seen pictures on it on local TV newscasts taken from helicopters.
Where lining up small rocks is sufficient in a V like shape into a 'kill zone'.
Stonehenge on the otherhand is an amazing human achievement for the era it was made.
I know Tobermory in Ontario is a famous dive spot for a near surface tanker ship that sank there. Its something I miss about Europe. So many interesting artifacts to look at.
- Dr. Breen, Half Life 2
I think that describes chicken farming pretty well actually...