How to let go of a lifelong dream
psyche.co
psyche.co
I think JK Rowling's Harry Potter books were rejected by 10 publishers, so fuck other people's judgement.
In what way would he be OK? Tons of developers launch software projects, but most don't go anywhere...
>The consensus seems to be that interviews are bad at identifying capable people.
Perhaps, but self-selection is even worse...
>I think JK Rowling's Harry Potter books were rejected by 10 publishers, so fuck other people's judgement.
Well, the books of some authors were rejected by ALL publishers though, and the books of other authors were accepted by sold nothing, so there's that too...
Holy shit what?
I mean i don't hired on every interview myself as probably everyone does in their lives but i have never been terminated ever. That has to be some kind of a very clear red flag that you are doing something significanly wrong.
I wonder what it could be that consistently gets him fired, but didn't raise any red flags in his interviews.
It's worth getting terminated once to get a peek behind the scenes on how these things work :-)
It likely depends on the company, but it's not that hard to get terminated. Just have a manager that is ruthlessly pursuing his career, and wants you to be a pawn in his quest. When he suggests something that is wrong/suboptimal, then disagree with him. Repeat about 10 times and he'll find ways for you to underperform and fire you.
At 28 I had a PhD in computer science, worked for Google, and was basically as far along in my career as I had the passion to do. I was a TL (happily not one now). I've moved to a smaller company and I'm liking that. I have accumulated about half of my retirement fund (I'm not expecting to live much past 60 due to health issues, so I need retire early or die working). My goal for the next 10 years is to establish the "retirement" phase of my life. Accumulate enough money, lower my CoL and build infrastructure to keep me fed and entertained for the next 30 years. I have a backlog of "things I really want to do to but nobody will pay me for" that I hope to be free to work on until I die.
Although, I'm thoroughly fed up of what I liked to do earlier; now I'm looking for a new career path. Let's see how it goes.
I hope the fact that I can recognize this about myself helps me avoid pitfalls in choosing goals.
They’re not even at the place where they’re worried about needing to pivot professions, they’ve just done their aspirations - other people’s aspirations - and are left wondering whats next.
They pivot, go back to school. Find something new to be passionate about. Take the office job they thought they would hate but suddenly find it fulfilling.
For us obviously these are the basics: an “office job” lol.
But the concept is similar, adjusting learning something new. Its not just about aspiring for new experiences for yourself, there can be other fulfilling things that are repetitive where you dont really have to one-up yourself, just do it differently. Like art, festivals.
These guys had bagged the highest possible achievement in their field, most in their 20s. Now what?
Most tried to stay in the field and go the coach/management route. One actually managed to get to a second world cup as head coach and place second. Several languished as coaches of lower league teams, clearly unhappy (or at least the article portrayed them so). Some became TV commentators. Only one left the sport behind completely, invested his money and lived in the USA.
Don't worry, there are more things to do than there are years in your life. Try something else. Go visit some tall mountains, learn to drive/pilot something new, make an art, volunteer somewhere new, or just live differently than you have in the past.
It might not be fulfilling, but at least it'll be less boring. There's nothing worse than getting stuck in a rut, and telling yourself that you're only trying something for a few months is a good way to find interests that you never knew you had.
There's the saying "wherever you go, there you are." At some point I ran across the idea that them emphasis should be on the "you;" wherever you go, there you are.
Also, you basically described retirement.
This is why I lament the realities of the path of some who achieved success at too early an age, especially if they delayed coming of age in order to do so. Its not uncommon to hear about the teenage bitcoin millionaire or a really young founder that got lucky on his first shot, but when one of those kids enter your life you're shocked at how miserable and depressed they are. They seem to lack purpose entirely and seem to get in the way of what you would think would be 'happiness.'
Peaking so early in life has to be less about awkwardness and more about the fear knowing it will likely all just be downhill from that high and you're just filling the void until death; many would think (myself included) that you'd enjoy the luxuries it affords all while still having your youth and the excitement that creates but the reality is most just languish in that situation and are aimless if they never saw anything worth pursuing beside those goals from an early age.
I'm guilty of sacrificing far too much to achieve my goals: youth, social life, relationships, stability, money, (mental and physical) health etc... but it took me until my mid 30s to see why that tired cliche about it being 'more about ride than the destination' to realize why its true.
I learned so much about myself from all of the painful mistakes, the struggle and the resilience you create to cope with it and came to value the relationships I made along the way that made any of it possible more than what a 'fat exit' from a startup ever could. I only recently realized I came out a better person: I'm far from perfect, but I noticed I'm a much more compassionate, empathetic, and genuinely kind person, one that people actually enjoy being around and spending time with even with all my 'baggage.'
Whereas my younger self idealized a cunning, scheming, cut-throat opportunist who could thrive in any situation whatever the cost. Essentially it made be re-evaluate the value of People, Community and Humanity in general; instead of just succumbing to the nihilist, reductionist that feels that the height of one's existence could somehow elevate them to a fabricated position and even allow them to take pleasure in seeing the World burn from an ivory tower because at least 'I made it.'
To watch it unfold live, just go through Notch's twitter feed...
That's an interesting way to see it! So is your overall take on life now a positive or a negative one? Or is it somewhere in between?
> I'm only now just starting to settle into what I see as a "decade long effort" on a new set of goals.
Goals can lead you astray, though. Sometimes you don't actually want to achieve them[0] or you do want to achieve them but don't and end up frustrated because you keep on measuring yourself against them. Or, well, you do achieve them and still end up being miserable.
Years ago I read this blog post[1] and it resonated a lot with me. Now I prefer to view my life through the problems I have or don't have, instead of the goals I have achieved or have not achieved.
Several suicides have occurred during the past few years in the Canadian medical school/residency community, but they do not make the news.
It makes you wonder if the information in this article could have helped them.
[1] https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/17/tragic-case-o...
It is not just failed dream, it is also massive sunk cost.
> [...] Where roles are ranked and somewhat related, persons who have been rejected from the one above may be difficult to distinguish from persons who have risen from the one below. For example, in America, upper class women who fail to make a marriage in their own circle may follow the recognized route of marrying an upper middle class professional. Successful lower middle class women may arrive at the same station in life, coming from the other direction. Similarly, among those who mingle with one another as colleagues in the profession of dentistry, it is possible to find some who have failed to become physicians and others who have succeeded at not becoming pharmacists or optometrists. No doubt there are few positions in life that do not throw together some persons who are there by virtue of failure and other persons who are there by virtue of success. In this sense, the dead are sorted but not segregated, and continue to walk among the living.
On Cooling the Mark Out: Some Aspects of Adaptation to Failure -- Erving Goffman
Psychiatry: Journal of Interpersonal Relations 1952
http://infofranpro.wdfiles.com/local--files/19520101-on-cool...
I've certainly been disappointed to find certain paths were unexpectedly difficult and "not worth it" for me, but I can't say I regret leaving them; usually part of what made the path difficult was the lure of another path.
I also wonder if having dreams involving physical stamina make them harder to let go of. Ballet, for instance, is very physically demanding, and aging will cost you; you can't just take a 10 year break. Whereas if I dream of building a certain piece of software, it actually gets easier because the tools get better and age gives me experience.
I've also always been weary of dreams that depend on something too beyond your control, such as winning a certain award. You can do your best, but you can't force others to do worse.
(ETA: On a spiritual note, I don't think the achievement of any dream should be the foundation of the worth of one's life. That is, your existence in and of itself has more intrinsic value to the world than the achievement of any personal dream.)
When I started CS it was not yet approaching that pattern, it was still collecting burn outs from other STEM fields who liked to mess with complex systems. They pretty much all lived well because they were in the right place at the right time since they were done with any dream BS and just looked for something interesting that payed.
I've achieved many of the goals I set myself, but my career has operated at a lower scale than what I can confidently describe as successful. I’m an artist & designer.
The biggest issue for me is being a parent. Being a parent puts a huge damper on my time, as well as my capacity for immersion and risk. My work necessitates being freelance in a fiercely competitive environment, there are no paid positions in my niche. It’s essential to have continuous periods of total absorption in order to perform at a high level. It is very hard to keep within 40 hours per week.
All of this is sharply at odds with my responsibilities as a parent. Yet I feel deeply committed to being a responsible parent.
But if that were true, I would've quit already. This inconsistency has created an unresolvable split internally, whereby I fall short at my standards of parenting, yet also at work. Worse, I increasingly hold back at seizing prized opportunities in my career, because I worry about the effect on my family. Such opportunities keep being offered, although fewer every year.
I realize I'm in a terminal spin. Yet everyone I know, even the two therapists I've seen, encourage me to commit to chasing this dream, albeit in a responsible way.
I’ve tried diluting what do into very commercial service, ie working for advertising agencies. I found decent clients, yet felt like shit about it. The working conditions are only marginally improved, but the output is massively less unrewarding.
What I’ve learned:
- A drastic change to another field would likely have been better strategy over the long haul, than a middling compromise.
- Competition and proximate opportunity keep you trapped in the game. It’s very hard to disengage from a game you feel involved in, either as player or observer. Other people’s ambitions are infectious, and you model their moves.
- When chasing a risky dream, the introduction of a dependent hugely decreases appetite for risk. You need to have reached a relatively comfortable position, above the messy middle, in order to keep playing.
If I was childless, if it was only my welfare on the line, there is no question as to what I would do. I would chase the dream relentlessly and recklessly.
The fact is, it was time to let go of it, years ago. I'm just amazed at my own and society's illusions of romantic perseverance when it comes to following your passions.
Why don't you major in business instead?
Now my hopes have all vanished and my dreams have all died
and I'll probably work forever as a tour guide, on the jungle cruise ride
Skipper Dan is the name
And I'm doing 34 shows every day, and every time it's the same
Look at those hippos, they're wiggling their ears
Somebody shoot me, 'cause I'm bored to tears
Always said I'd be famous - I guess that I lied
'Cause I'm working on the jungle cruise ride
Did you know this junkyard slave
Isn't even old enough to shave
But he can use the Force, they say
Ahh, do you see him hitting on the queen
Though he's just nine and she's fourteen
Yeah, he's probably gonna marry her someday
Well, I know he built C-3PO
And I've heard how fast his pod can go
And we were broke, it's true
So we made a wager or two
He was a pre-pubescent flyin' ace
And the minute Jabba started off that race
Well, I knew who would win first place
Oh yes, it was our boy
We started singin'
My my this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi, soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
I starred in every high school play
blew every drama teacher away
graduated first in my class at Juilliard
took every acting workshop I could
and I dreamed of Hollywood
while I read my Uta Hagen and studied the Bard
In my understanding, the unhappiness expressed by the singer comes from failing to achieve his lifelong dream; that's why I posted the stretch above on "How to let go of a lifelong dream".
I find that near-final couplet - Always said I'd be famous / I guess that I lied - to pack an extraordinary amount of tragic punch for 11 words. Sometimes it can cost a lot to admit something, even something that everyone knows.
That said, I saw an interview with Weird Al in which he was asked about reactions to the song, and said that theme park guides tended to like it. After all, the song depicts them as responsible people who pay the rent. The people who really hate the song (according to the interview) are actors.
"Four Ways of Letting Go | Ajahn Brahm | 09-04-2010"
I wonder what YCombinator thinks about career aptitude tests. Could the YC interview be replaced by such a test? I suspect the answer is no.
I might be helpful to consider goals as not coming first.
In my own thinking, I often/deeply use the acronum PVSGEER, for things like having Purpose, Vision, Strategy, Goals, Empowerment, Execution, Review/Report/Revise/Repeat. I've written more elsewhere, but having purpose in life can drive so many other things, and give one a direction that supports changes in goals. A late university president & former US solicitor general (Rex Lee) said he had given up on setting goals because...something like...life changed in unexpected ways, and he was grateful and accepted opportunities that arose. But having purpose first of all would give us a way to navigate that.
Vision is what the outcome looks like (and can also change as we learn & mature). Strategy is like a map of the terrain (per S.R. Covey, IIRC). I don't think of "SMART" Goals because too often there are things that (should? or must) change short-term plans, but there might be something to learn there, but I do have plans & careful priorities as goals, and try to enjoy working on them and making constant progress. And so on.
But it starts with purpose, which in my view/experience/beliefs solves many, many problems (for me and all I have observed, which I tend to do much of). If one's religion does not provide that purpose, one might consider helping to lift humanity, finding joy through both growth (learning, improvement) and unselfish service to others, employing always honesty and treating others as oneself would want to be treated.
(Edit: and it seems loosely relevant: Tolstoy said something like "All happy families are alike, and all miserable families are miserable in their own way". I think there is much to that: multigenerational unselfish service in a widening circle brings greater sustainability and peace. Seeing what families' and/or cultures' traits allow them to persist over time is interesting.)
Edit2: having an honest job that is not dream-related, to support a family or help others, is very honorable and can bring happiness with great fulfillments over time. Many very grateful people (such as in my extended family) are alive and educated and functioning because someone honest and diligent went to work every day, and/or diligently cared for, taught, and encouraged them every day! And if those parents ever need things like a place to stay or basic resources, multiple of those grateful people would certainly strive to provide it. (That's another big subject I've written about, more for another time...)
time is a flat circle
More broadly, "time is a flat circle" was popularized in the first series of True Detective, but it originates in Neitzsche's doctrine of eternal recurrence, which was itself influenced by various western and eastern thinkers.
I think the point of the article is that people sometimes have difficulty deciding to pivot, and then have difficulty pivoting toward a new passion.
While I didn't downvote - my guess would be that your message was received as support towards the idea that suicide would be a reasonable and healthy reaction to not reaching your dreams - an idea that in itself could make someone consider the option.