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Comment by RamshackleJ | Hacker News Reader

I went through a phase of drinking milk substitutes but I'm back to milk.

The glycemic index of most milk substitutes (oat,soy,almond) are equivalent or greater than a can of coke. Milk substitutes also tend to be really really high in vegetable oils that seem to at least have a troubling correlation with chronic disease.

The metrics used for the environmental impact of intensive animal husbandry tend too skew towards the worst case (obese cows on a grain fed diet in a feedlot). There are plenty of dairy farms raising cows with a more sustainable grass-based diet that doesn't release nearly as much methane (Think how gassey you'd be if the only thing you ate was ice-cream?)

I like supporting my local dairy farmers, more than I enjoy supporting some multi-national milk-substitute beverage company with a supply chain spanning the globe.

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I am very interested in this as I only drink alternatives now and although not very much I will often eat foods made from the same ingredients (soy, almond, etc).

Glycemic Index - Are we talking about sweetened milk alternatives here? From what I have seen most alternatives come out the same or lower than dairy milk unless they have added sugar.

Vegetable Oil - I am sure alternatives contain more vegetable oils, but interested to know what you mean by "really really high". The opposing side is dairy milk containing saturated fat which has it's own implications.

Would love to see some studies if you have any handy.

Hey yeah Im no expert but happy to share some of the stuff that I've looked at.

Glycemic Index - not every gram of carbohydrate is made equal. You can have a drink with fewer grams of sugar but that still has a higher glycemic load. Lactose has a fairly low glycemic index which results in it often having a lower glycemic load of drinks sweetened with lower quantities of maltose/dextrose. In terms of scientific literature I think there are a bunch of well regarded studies on this topic (glycemic load and how it relates to health) since its a pretty key factor in diabetes.

Vegetable Oil - tbh I'm less sure of the science for this but reading https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/why-is-vegetable-oil-unhealt... gave me enough doubt to try to reduce my consumption.

I still occasionally use unsweetened coconut milk, since it has no added sugars and none of the more suspicious vegetable oils. But what I've found is that when you get rid of the sugar/vegetable oils none of the milk substitutes taste anything like milk.

For me the biggest benefit of switching to oat milk is how long it lasts. Milk was never a huge part of my diet but it was important & I used it it in random things but I'd always waste it. Now that stuff lasts daaays

The glycemic index of most milk substitutes (oat,soy,almond) are equivalent or greater than a can of coke.

That's true of oat and rice milk, but not of almond or soy. That's to be expected: the former two are made out of starchy grains, the latter two out of fatty nuts/pulses. Those are on a par with milk for glycemic index (~25).

The worst case ("obese cows on a grain fed diet in a feedlot") is also the common case: if you go to the grocery store and buy generic "milk", that's what you're going to get. Organic may be slightly better, though it's unclear. You can go out of your way to get more sustainably-produced milk, but you're going to pay at least twice as much for it.

That's a decent choice, though I'd be happier if it were easier to verify. (I don't trust the labeling of "grass fed milk", and locally-sourced milk that I can check myself is hard to come by.) The small comfort is that dairy cattle have to be treated relatively well, since they can't produce good milk if they're sick or abused.

Commercial beef feedlots vs commercial dairy feedlots are a mile apart, but unfortunately most dairy cows end up at the former after they hit declining milk production.

I'd recommend checking if you can go tour a local dairy, I've found that any quality dairy will let you do that and you can judge for yourself about the welfare of the animals. You're gonna to pay more but the nutritional value of a gallon of milk at $8 vs $2 is still well worth it imo.

I'd also really recommend looking into the health impacts of vegetable oils. Most milk substitutes are, at their core, emulsified vegetable oils. I found that the trade-offs were higher glycemic load(oat/rice), increased vegetable oils(soy/almond) or something that tastes nothing like milk (unsweetened coconut milk).

Yep. Turns out that milk is actually really healthy for you, at least if you belong to a population group that evolved the ability to digest lactose.

(Lactose-free milk is getting better, though it's still too sweet; A2 milk (w/o the A1 proteins) is an interesting option for some people).

I get it, the cows aren't living their most self-actualized life, but I basically sit in a stall all day producing code and documentation, so while I can empathize with them, it doesn't mean I want to pay a bunch more so _they_ get to go outside all day while I'm still stuck here on the git treadmill.

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