Dear Google: Search Competition should be 1 Click Away so why 15+ on Android? | Hacker News Reader

Dear Google: Search Competition should be 1 Click Away so why 15+ on Android?

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146 pointsalexrustic42 comments

I never thought I'd have to defend Google, but the steps to change the default search engine for your browser seem perfectly appropriate. This "open letter" comes across as DDG uncovering some Google conspiracy or exposing a dark pattern, but I don't think this is the case.

DDG is a private company seeking profits, just like Google. I'm a happy customer of DDG but empty marketing like this isn't going to move anyone. It feels like one company complaining about it's competitor. You don't see ProtonMail complaining that Gmail comes pre-installed on the OS.

There's plenty of other reasons to criticize Google, changing default settings doesn't seem to be a hill to die on.

Yes and no. I think you are vastly underselling how valuable being the default setting is.

If you remember the "good old days" of Microsoft, Internet Explorer monopoly only when they were forced out of being default and had to actively ask the users which browser they want and make the users' effort equal for every choice.

Power of defaults is just too massive to be ignored. And default is always easier than any "easy way of changing".

I also remember how that did nothing to beat IE until someone actually built a better browser - Mozilla/Firebird/Firefox and later Chrome.

Should that matter? If you do monopoly while having a better product you should still be charge with monopoly. That is you should be forced to gain market share fairly even if your product is better then the competition.

Depends on the country. In the US (as I understand it) a key component to being charge with a monopoly is you have to show that consumers/users are negatively impacted.

Philosophically I don't know whether or not I agree that's best, but it's the way it is currently.

I also remember Google's marketing campaign to shove Chrome in installers for Windows.

Yep, when fighting against the browser that's baked into the operating system.

Then again, Edge now happily sets itself as default browser (and "fixes" default search engine selection) every few weeks on my W10 machine so nothing much has changed in this fight.

DDG doesn't even want an even system. They complained that the auction was too expensive for them.

> There's plenty of other reasons to criticize Google, changing default settings doesn't seem to be a hill to die on.

This statement is ironic considering that when Google was the profit driven upstart, changing default settings on IE was literally the hill Google chose to die on, as far as anti trust regulation against Microsoft was concerned.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-seeks-to-join-internet-...

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Seems like now we have an official timeline for the hero-->villain transition, and it is ~11 years!

How time flies!

https://publicpolicy.googleblog.com/2009/02/browsers-powered... was posted by Sundar Pichai himself!

> Google believes that the browser market is still largely uncompetitive ... This is because Internet Explorer is tied to Microsoft's dominant computer operating system, giving it an unfair advantage over other browsers. Compare this to the mobile market, where Microsoft cannot tie Internet Explorer to a dominant operating system, and its browser therefore has a much lower usage. The value of competition for users (even in the limited form we see today) is clear: tabbed browsing, faster downloads, private browsing features, and more.

Wow, this is enlightening. I'll take back my last statement. Maybe Google should be offering users to pick a default search engine from the start like they wanted Microsoft to do...

I agree with you. Your statement made me want to test it, and my first thought was: "I'll right-click on the search bar". And there was the option to manage the search engines.

The only non-intuitive thing was that I then had to click on the 3-vertical-dot-menu of the search engine which I wanted to set as default. A separate drop-down list would have been more appropriate (or a radio button column).

And on Chrome on Android it's 4 taps.

Not directly related, but whack-a-mole default settings are actually one of my biggest pet peeves. For instance, how many times have you had to tell the same piece of software after an update, "No, I do not want to send telemetry data, please stop reverting my answer to yes."

Do they not use ... ... ... cookies?

I don’t like Android but that argument about downloading first DuckDuckGo browser, tapping and long-pressing is silly as f*#k. And, I’m saying this as long time DDG user. They should focus on improving their search engine rather than writing those pointless PR scraps. :-)

The one thing I agree with is giving a choice after first setup of a device to choose a default search engine (engine, not browser). Yet, I could bet serious cash on that Google will still be the major engine chosen. As ordinary Joe don’t even know about DDG or any other existing search engines.

I think the awareness is the first step for competition to survive.

The most important aspect isn’t awareness is relevant search results. For power users with all those !bangs and stuff DDG is awesome (me included), but average Joe will not find what he is looking for. Especially local results, Google on that field is ahead of competition by light years.

I tried to convert many people who aren’t tech-savvy to DDG, none of them lasted more than a few days.

Are they serious? I just checked on my phone:

1) in chrome, click three dots 2) click settings 3) literally the first option in settings is "search engine" 4) click the new one. Done. Duck duck go is on the list

Wow their pr is really far reaching. Why do I need the duck duck go browser/app to use duck duck go?

Edit: unless this is about something else? Maybe for assistant? Or some other integration with the os?

They are trying to download the DDG Privacy Browser. I just did it in 3.

1. Use the search widget and type duckduckgo app 2. First thing that pops up is Google Play link to install app, click install 3. Takes you to google play, and click install

Title is misleading. It's about installing a specific browser, not just changing search engine.

The article shows that it takes 15 clicks to install a browser, pin it to the home screen and make it the default, and claims - without evidence - that changing the default search engine is just as hard.

They actually provide instructions to change the search widget - i.e. the bar at the top of the screen - along with changing the browser.

And honestly, I agree with them. I'd very much like a way to integrate my chosen search engine into the Android search subsystem. I actually seem to recall this being possible on older versions of Android, where the default search widget would allow the user to pick a search "lens", say Files, Music, or eMail for example, alongside that of Google Search.

You're not wrong, but... I just got a new phone - getting FF as the default and setting DDG as the default search engine had me messing around trying out all kinds of different settings and places to change stuff. It was frustrating.

So I think there are two issues here; the shortest path and the "I do this once every 2 years" path. You know, kinda like a perceived loading time.

Is the Google search bar on the bottom of Androids homescreen removable at all?

I would love to get rid of it but have not found a way yet.

On my non-root phone I use Nova Launcher to get rid of the stock homescreen functions and added some gestures. See if that works for you

I run an old version of Android, but in theory you should be able to long-press it (maybe 5 seconds) and move it to a "remove" location. Failing that, there should be a setting to remove it.

No. And my Android has never respected my search engine choice. I don't understand why people are acting like there is something wrong with us a customers. I have a CS degree. Why can't I choose a search engine? Also the "news" that Google shows me by spying on the very few searches I have accidentally been tricked into Googling are often clickbait and factually incorrect.

Personally I love the news feature. I returned a samsung note because it lacked a decent launcher with features like that

On old versions of Android, the search bar was a simple home screen widget, which you could add and remove like any other home screen widget. On newer versions of Android, however, the search bar is part of the default launcher, so the only way to remove it is to switch to another launcher.

I mean, you can use a different launcher, right?

I am sorry, this is pretty weak, why didn't they add turning on the phone in their steps.

In firefox on android its 3 clicks, and duck duck go is one of the default search options.

On my phone, I click settings, type "search engine", select duckduckgo

This to me is reasonable, a single click is a bit impossible if taken literally.

They are including adding their browser, this is not the same thing as changing your search engine settings, which seems to be most of the steps they list, none of which are needed to change the search engine on your phone/browser/etc...

I always thought the quote about competition being one click away referred to the idea that Google could very well be feeding the next Google through a search result from it’s own property that is one click away.

This article seems to take on a meaning that Google was somehow referring to how easy it is to change a search engine. I don’t think this is truly how competition in search will rise. Nobody is going to build a Google that gets users to consciously replace Google as a default in a browser. It seems futile to focus on this.

Google search competition will come from 2 places: the most popular platform that controls the users browser will cut them out aa default or a new search context outside the browser will become more important for searching. This is why Google pays Apple oodles of cash to make a favorable decision for them and why they invest in Google Assistant. This money defends against competitive threat. Somehow burying the ability to switch your web search engine..? Seems unimportant

Yeah, this is cool and all, but how about you make DDG good so people want to use it?

Was able to just do this in 3 steps

1. Use the Google Search widget and type DuckDuckGo, there's a suggestion for "DuckDuckGo App"

2. First result is the DDG Privacy Browser App, with a button to "install"

3. Opens up Play and you have to select "install" again, IMO this is a good security feature to not auto install

This seems like, more than anything, something the EU would be able to require. Like they did with Microsoft and web browser choice,

ad for DDG, not that it's a bad thing... I'd much rather support DDG than google

Search competition is zero clicks away.

<Ctrl>+l , duckduckgo.com, <Enter>

Ah yes, I love <Ctrl> shortcuts on my Android!

Point taken/understood.

For curiosity's sake, I just tried the above shortcuts in Chrome with a bluetooth folding keyboard and an Android phone. Worked great.

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