Comment by mrkwse | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mrkwse | Hacker News Reader

> Every other pair of over-the-ear headphones I’ve ever used feel a bit cheap in comparison

This has always surprised my as someone who's owned a couple of pairs of B&W P-series headphones (P5 then PX). Portable headphones should be built to last, not just flimsy plastic. B&W got it right with metal construction (and with the newest PX models forged carbon fibre), no surprises Apple is building robust headphones too.

What B&W provide though, is a really solid benchmark (of many) (with the exception of spatial audio - which from Gruber sounds like it still has some shortcomings to overcome). They're £200 cheaper, really substantial and solid construction (with a proper hard carrying case - although similar limited folding), the newest carbon models will be noticeably lighter (if still a substantial 310g).

Obviously the Sony XM4s and Bose 700s are well in view too (although plastic construction can make them seem a less premium alternative).

I expect these will sell relatively well, but I can't see them flying off the shelves like their in-ear namesakes in such a crowded and competitive market, even with Apple's software bonuses.

> Portable headphones should be built to last, not just flimsy plastic.

Good plastic is not flimsy.

Polycarbonate, an almost commodity plastic, is really strong and light. The next step: composites are way better than any metal if you want a good strength-to-weight ratio. The best, most expensive bikes are made out of carbon fiber composite for a reason.

Plastic is commonly used as casing material for stuff designed for rough environments. Portable power tools, PA speakers, even guns. So if something designed to be used on the battlefield can be made of plastic, there is no problem for headphones worn, at worst, in the subway.

The only problem with plastic is that it suffers from being cheap, as in, not expensive enough. People want expensive products to be made of expensive materials. Also, subconsciously we associate weight with quality, so much that cheap manufacturers sometimes add metal inserts to their otherwise low quality products to trick people into thinking they are better than they really are.

That it to say, unless you put a premium on look and feel (nothing wrong with that), don't hesitate to buy plastic headphones, they can last you a lifetime as long as the right plastic is used at the right place.

You can also have long-term durability issues. But this is long-term as in probably decades which isn't really generally relevant for consumer electronics. I have a few older kitchen appliances that have started spontaneously developing cracks. I've patched things up and bought a couple of (ill-fitting) replacement parts. But I'll probably end up having to replace them even though they're otherwise functional. (Of course, the materials may well have improved by now.)

I wish that someone made headphones built with BPA-free plastic like my Aeropress (https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/aeropress/aeropress) or even my Lido 3 coffee grinder (https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/orphan-espresso/lido-3), which also uses stainless steel and aluminum. Considering how durable both of these tools are (and how good they feel in hand) I wonder why they haven't caught on in the tech industry.

I don't know if being BPA-free has anything to do with durability. I thought it was something that only mattered for food-related products (to avoid BPA getting into your food).

Good point. I suppose I'm just talking about the feel of the Aeropress and, say, Nalgene bottles. That plastic feels somehow less "cheap" to me than most plastic electronic devices. I wonder why?

"BPA-free" doesn't mean much. The industry has been moving on from BPA due to (very reasonable) fears about human consumption, but it appears manufacturers simply moved onto other BPA-like alternatives such as BPS and BPF that have not been as extensively studied, and which may have the same health hazards.

Exactly, plastic lasts 10000s years. I'm a believer now - I've rebuilt a lego set from my childhood and all the bricks fit and look pretty much exactly the same, 30 years later

Polycarbonate stops bullets, but it's also notoriously soft, scratches easily, it's a thermoplastic (so it melts with heat), and it's soluble in ammonia or acetone (so it's vulnerable to nail polish remover). Other than all that, polycarbonate is a perfect plastic.

The most durable headphones I've ever owned are Sennheiser HD 25 and made from plastic and super light. It was ~£100, sounds amazing and lasted me 15 years of being dragged to clubs, house parties and getting a fair beating. Only this year have I replaced them and that was only because I lost my old pair in a recent house move and figured "it's been 15 years, there's no shame in buying a new pair even though the old pair might turn up in a random box later".

However those cans don't have bluetooth, noise cancelling, a microphone nor adaptive EQing. They're literally just a high quality speaker, headband and copper wiring.

serious question, why would you take headphones to clubs and house parties?

To DJ at them.

He was probably the DJ.

To listen to music. Duh

Sounds like OP might be a DJ -- they usually wear headphones while mixing so they can actually hear the music over the noise of a party or club.

... and to hear different music than what is playing (cueing the next track, or effects).

Because clubs and house parties are loud and play awful music? (Yeah, I know he was the DJ)

HD 25s are amazing, especially because every part is replaceable and can be easily ordered.

In terms of build quality, I've always thought Bang & Olufsen made the best headphones. The H9 series is made with aluminum and leather, and costs just slightly less than AirPods Max.

Reading this I immediately thought of the B&W PX. Really nicely made headphones which felt like they would last a long time. The battery would probably be the first thing to go. I really wanted to like them, but alas I just couldn't wear them comfortably for very long. They were too heavy for me.

By contrast, the Bose and Sony headphones, which feel more flimsy in comparison, I can wear for hours without issue.

I have the Sony WH1000 XM3. I disagree they feel more flimsy. The most critique I can come up with is that the clickiness of the buttons isn’t up to Apple standards. And they lack multipoint.

Also to consider, AirPods Max can be extremely well built but you still cannot pack them in a suitcase like you can the Sony or Bose, due to the shitty pouch that’s included...

Third party cases will be available in about a second from when they launch.

It's a non-issue.

Yes. So instead of spending €300 at a perfectly fine WH1000XM4 including a case and cable (and airplane adapter), I get to spend €630 on AirPods Max, €40 on a cable and probably €100 on a case.

Indeed a non issue (assuming you also own a money printer).

They seem to be selling pretty well depending on how many Apple manufactured. If you want them you are going to have to wait until March already.

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/12/08/airpods-max-shipping-es...

Seconding the PX series high build quality. After losing my beloved a Sennheiser PXC 550s, I got the PX7 and it's very nicely made. The buttons and the embossed logos on the cups are the only at all cheap-feeling parts.

That said, the B&W v-shaped sound is not my favorite. Not unlistenable, but maybe not what I'd choose again.

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