Ask HN: Got promoted with a near zero increase. Time to leave?

I have three pieces of advice:

1) Continue to be proud of your work and always put your best foot forward. Don't do yourself a disservice by half-assing things.

2) The pandemic, economic downturn, and the accompanying unemployment levels might actually mean a 2% increase is 2% more than anyone else, certainly when compared to people potentially let go.

3) Related to item #2, from a job security perspective, you never really want to be the highest paid employee. Having others at the same salary level allows you to be the best for the money rather than the best, but also most expensive.

Best of luck.

I would recommend that you let them know that you hope to revisit your compensation in the future, particularly in light of your new responsibilities and profitability of the company.

Very well said.

Are you sure it's the money?

Most times I've left a company for what I thought was money, I later realized there was something I didn't quite like about working there - I had sorta conjured the money as the reason to move along although in many cases, I did do better financially by job hopping.

That being said, the company may well have its hands tied re salary (which I agree is dumb) - but you can always try to negotiate more equity or bonuses... If you can't get anything done there, start interviewing, get an offer for 10+% more than you make now and you can ask them to counter -- although I generally don't like the idea of taking counter-offers.

I'd look around just to see what options are out there.

I think many places will have similar issues. For example, I work at a highly rated company. The company expects you to show more dedication the higher you go. They measure that by the hours you work (even though policy says not to and sets them at 7.5 working hours per day). This is a financial company that constantly pushes technical people to increase financial knowledge.

So in order to be given the promotion, you want me to increase my working hours by about 13%. The new position has more responsibilities. You will give me only a 7% raise. Why the hell would I increase my hours, effectively taking an hourly pay cut, for a job with more responsibilities? Hey management, I can see you paying me less to do more. How's that for financial acumen.

"Other option is to start my own company"

You throw that in at the last minute. You either want to start your own company or you don't. Most likely don't, since if you wanted to you already would have.

So yeah, go job hunting. You like the job but want more money so go see if anyone will pay you more money to do what you do now.

Most developers check that stuff out every week.

You're worth what you can convince someone to pay you. If you think you can earn more, start interviewing and see what the market says. Stay at your current job in the meantime. Once you get some offers, you'll be able to make an informed decision as to whether you're leaving money on the table by staying.

Turn down the promotion. Surprised not to see this suggestion here.

I’ve been a C*O many times in my career. Now I’m a IC. I have a strong salary and the directors in the last few companies I worked suffered more, and had more volatile continuity in their positions. The ICs can stick around forever. Not sure why I’d want to go higher in the kind of orgs I’m doing well in now. Someday it’ll be different, but for now... no promotions, thank you.

I took it as a like IC promotion - senior to staff or something - but you raise an excellent point.

A promotion into managing people comes with dealing with people's ego and emotions and you have their compensation and well being tied up in it as well...

I've had some gigs where I've sorta shirked managing people - I hate dealing with performance reviews and the like. But I have liked mentoring people, so I've accepted dotted-line reports where the actual management responsibilities fall to my boss and I help people build cool things while leading some team that does that.

Interesting perspective. I kind of agree with you. I have a follow up question. Even within IC, there are different levels. One may want to keep a low profile ( for less stress, job security etc) and remain at the same level. But others around (including juniors) can get promoted to the higher IC levels. Due to this, people may perceive you as not good enough. How does one handle this?

I know people in large orgs who've kept their IC role for 5-10 years, largely because they definitely provide value. They own their space, but they don't use that in a negative power way. They tend to be very generous with their time and knowledge. They're also net-positive contributors. That's a thing to figure out, for sure. It's sometimes the case that the one getting promoted isn't actually providing greater value, they're just the obvious answer to a painful question.

I think this is also a little easier when you're a little older. I was a ladder climber early on in my career. I'm older now, and in enterprise orgs, there are plenty of seasoned people. It's not obvious that you should be hankering after a title if you've otherwise established yourself.

This may bend differently in startups or hyper-growing orgs.

Turning down the promotion is certainly an option. I tried this and it ended up getting me laid off. Don't be surprised it this just forces their hand.

Thanks. You mean to say they laid you off despite your turning down the promotion?. Sorry to hear that. Any idea why?

> This is less than inflation in my country, so effectively working hard made me poorer in real terms?

Fucking lol'd hard on this. Prestige of the promotion is fucking nothing bud, start looking elsewhere (ideally somewhere with a higher offer considering your tenure, mandatory). Otherwise start looking into creating a side-hustle too.

Side tangent, you're pretty much spot-on about creating a business, provided that of course you approach it sensibly. You might enjoy this read: https://wallstreetplayboys.com/watch-the-company-man-give-aw...

Looking back at my post, pretty funny conclusion actually.

The most ironic bit is that I did all the work thinking I'll get best possible increase I could given pandemic times. So now, probably extra responsibilities for the same pay looooooool.

I enjoyed that link. Definitely a great read.

IDK your tax context but I once successfully argued for a doubling of a raise as I showed I'd be worse off as their paltry raise pushed me just into next to bracket.

I recently went through something similar, except I approached them before a promotion happened. I was able to outline the position I wanted but the process showed me several concrete incidences of dishonesty on their part. I turned down their offer and ultimately it cost me the job.

Know your worth but also know your employer. A good honest employer will listen and work with you. You may not get what you want but you'll be heard and understand each other.

Respect yourself but know when to move on and try to think several steps ahead.

Keep your day job and start a side-hustle. Whenever you feel undervalued by others, do not get angry or frustrated. Instead, use that energy to build your business during evenings and weekends.

Evening-and-weekends time isn't for more work. Either the current position works for you, or you start interviewing elsewhere.

This. If you’re getting less than inflation as an annual raise it’s time to move unless you’re an owner.

Keep moving until you land somewhere that doesn’t just say they know your value, but will actually pay for it.

Generally you want to negotiate compensation as part of accepting the new promotion/title. Not as part of the normal review process.

If they won't budge on compensation, accept the title and add it to your resume. Start looking for better offers. If you find a better offer, then they were wrong about market rates.

Given the whole 'rona situation, I think this year, any increase is good, at my job, nobody in the entire company got increase, not even the inflation, so we're basically working for less the next year. I'd probably stick it out and see if not next year brings something better.

There was a recession this year. Lots of people lost their jobs. Many companies aren't in the position of offering raises even if they wanted to.

That being said, if a 2% raise during a global recession/pandemic makes you feel unwanted at work, seek out greener pastures.

Get another (presumably higher) offer. If you want to stay, ask them to counter it. If not, leave.

If you can’t get a higher offer, then I guess they were right about your comp.

Leave immediately

Did you even ask for more or silently accepted what they said? Sometimes you have to ask for more.

How was the salary increase in the past 12 months prior to this promotion?

You have been bell curved

Sometimes you have to find the benefits in not getting the raises or promotions and go with it. Give it your best for a few years and see what happens.

My experience:

I've been at my job for nearly a decade. I work for a very large and powerful media corp doing web design. I've never been promoted despite the empty promises and I've gotten a raise about 4 or 5 times with the excuse that the company hasn't been doing well, despite the fact that I'm still employed and about "average busy" (I often find an hour or two to work on my own projects -- probably used to be 3-4 hours). This year as well, the pandemic was used as the excuse to not issue anyone any raises, and they let over a hundred people go in the first few months. We get bought by another company every few years which was the excuse last year, and this year, is the COVID-19 pandemic excuse. Next year, it'll be something else.

My salary hasn't changed much from when I first started... I've probably increased about $15k in the decade I've worked there, so $2k per year? Sounds like it sucks and it does. I cried about it and then I was totally over it because I found other ways.

Anyways, despite the fact that it is a dream job, though I have to deal with an arrogant supervisor I trained that keeps trying to fire me at least once or twice a month, I love the job and the work. And despite my menial average wage, I look at it a few ways:

1. The more you make, the more they take.

At the beginning of my career per se, I was earning nearly $100,000 from two jobs and was slapped with a nice tax bill because of the second job. I noticed that whenever I make more money, such as working overtime or taking up extra work, it backfires and it all goes to taxes. So I very rarely volunteer for overtime anymore. It does nothing for me. It hasn't gotten me promoted, hasn't gotten me any raises, and about the only thing it ever did was got me a "thanks for working." So it's not worth my time.

2. Learning about your company's empty promises

Honestly, after working at a company for nearly a decade, you learn about all its drama, office politics, etc. "Empty promises", boss after new boss, new promised direction, etc. Hardly anything actually changes, and its always for that person who is aspiring to get the promotion and raises they want and then they usually move on. To the general herd, it doesn't affect everyone. I remember when I used to care a lot more and try harder because I thought I was working for something that would get me ahead in life. Turns out... if you have someone stopping you from getting there, it will never happen. So... I found ways around it. And it didn't involve ever asking for a raise or a promotion -- I did that once when I was 20.. at the time, working for a security contract company, my boss gave me a penny raise, so I don't ask for raises anymore.

No matter what I do, how much I try, how great I do, the mistakes are always remembered, and pointed out in reviews, not anything good I ever did. So I take it all in stride, nod my head in agreement, and smile until I can move on with my life.

3. Health benefits

Lets be honest here. Obamacare was meant to help people, and for sure, those who can't afford healthcare or are literally in poverty line or below get free healthcare. Everyone else has to pay for it. So the health benefits offered by the company are amazing -- health coverage, eye care, and dental care.

Healthcare in general is expensive and not everyone has it. If you don't have healthcare, as you get older, life can be a bit interesting -- Walgreens becomes your pharmacy and the guy going to pharmacy school becomes your free doctor.

4. 401k w/company match up to 6%

Yup, its nice to invest extra money into the stock market, but lets be real: if freelancing is your main job, unless you're really good at what you do, there is no extra money. So having your company match your 401k, in order to help you save extra for retirement can help a lot. This usually means an extra $1,500 - $5,000 extra a year that is basically "free money" and your 65 year old retired self will thank you for doing it.

So having your company offer this is great. Trying to start a plan if you are on your own comes with its own fees and taxes.

5. Working Close To Home

Before the pandemic, I was riding my bicycle or driving to work. Either way, it was no more than 10 minutes to get there, saving on gas, and being so close to home.

After the pandemic: boss basically said everyone can work from home indefinitely. This may change after the pandemic is over, but for now... wee.

About $20 per week as an estimate, or $1040 per year, in gas costs, not even going to get into car maintenance and car insurance -- both of which have now been reduced by 90%. Saving the planet too by not driving!

6. Company Cell Phone

Lets say you are an individual with a cell phone plan. $15. $25. $30. $50. Depending on the plan you want and use. $180+ a year.

My company has paid my cellphone bill for the past decade.

I'll take a reasonable plan at $50 a month which gives you unlimited texting and calling is a savings of $600 a year.

7. PTO

After you work for a company for so long, you're entitled to some amazing time off... in my case, I get 6 weeks a year that is paid including sick days, vacation days, and personal floating holidays.

6 weeks is 2 and a half months that are PAID.

This equates to about $6k a year after tax and I didn't do anything for it but take my paid time off.

8. Working on my own side projects and other projects.

Company doesn't care what I do as long as I respond to emails and get the job done.

I have worked for about 10 different companies, whether contract, part-time, full-time, or freelance, all while working my day job. All very nice editions to my resume and portfolio as well. And I do get job offers every now and then -- sometimes they want me to quit, but I go with the ones who will contract me or allow me to freelance.

A majority of these jobs were under the table and often helped bring me to make close to 6 figures a year.

I even started my own web development business which has seen some profits.

I started a popular website which started from horror stories about my jobs. (https://confessionsoftheprofessions.com)

I wrote a book (https://mylifeasawomanproject.com) in which I interviewed over 500 women from every country in the world while working my day job. (downtime during the pandemic when we weren't busy for like 2 months)

Gotta change the world for the better in your own way!

9. Prestige and Loyalty

There is something to be said about someone who has been able to keep a steady job at the same company for nearly a decade. At most, you find the majority of people work at their jobs is about 5 years. When you work for a well known company, your bound to learn some things, especially secrets, and these secrets you can take with you and use to your advantage in other companies that hire you. It is like going to Harvard or working at Google. The next company and hiring manager will notice it.

10. Knowledge and Experience

Okay, not going to lie, I still get questions on some of the things I do, but for the most part, been doing it so long, why are you even questioning me? Sure, lets learn some new things, but... the job gets easier the longer you stay with it.. its a flow of my life nowadays.

I won't even get into the company mostly keeping the refrigerator stocked with drinks while we were working in an office. But that was an awesome thing to have.

Note: I love my job. I take pride in what I do. I accept that there are just some things that won't change and although I tried to change them, I choose to stay because I like what I do and find other benefits instead of begging and pleading for "more money". More money never led to anyone to be that much happier at their jobs anyway.

You should find other benefits that you can take advantage of if you can! During this pandemic, its only been 2 years for you.. the company has their reasons. If you are unhappy when the 3-year mark approaches... start looking for a job, learn all you can while leading up to it, but don't leave before having something new. And lastly, if you really do feel strongly about it and want your raise, then ask for it, with the expectation that its not going to happen, but ask the next company for above what you wanted, and you may just get it there. All depends on where you want to be in 5 years or 10 years. Take time to really calculate the costs and the pay you aren't seeing upfront in your paycheck. For my company, I was asked that question... and thats just another empty promise and a joke.