Poor evidence that Q-tips are harmful
residentcontrarian.substack.com
residentcontrarian.substack.com
I'm here to clarify how many (but not all) of us use medical research: the "pyramid of evidence."
The idea is that I rely upon the best available evidence, which (roughly in order) is: meta-analysis, randomized controlled trials and other prospective data, retrospective analyses, expert consensus, and (finally) clinical experience.
This is rough because there are good critiques of meta-analyses as a tool, the available data may be a bad fit for that patient, research biases, etc. A big one is that many questions don't have a big commercial upside, so nobody will ever fund a good prospective blinded trial. Which takes us to the last point: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because all the of the studies about Q-Tips are low quality doesn't mean a better study would find something different. We don't know the answer to that, and that would be a big assumption to make.
So, sometimes the best available evidence is not statistically ironclad. It falls on us to use a reasonable approach about how hard a line to take. Some do a better job than others.
That was long and rambling, but hopefully it helps to clarify some misconceptions. As an applied science, we have to go with the data we've got, which is almost always not an ideal fit for the patient in front of us.
It feels good to scoop the goop out of your ears after a hot shower.
I dunno if this is a good advice, but it worked every time I got excessive build-up.
Some people just tilt their head to the right side in case it is their right ear and aim the shower head at their ear for some time. Sometimes it can just "fall out" (really, seen it happen!). Regardless, I just do the syringe one and paper tissue + finger.
She cleaned them regularly. I was a ear wax machine, to an absurd degree.
Luckily as an adult they're pretty normal...i assume. But i still clean them after i get out of the shower since i dislike the feeling of water in my ears.
So, probably not much of an incentive.
It also could be just as the original poster mentioned, maybe no one has really felt like the investment to ask the question would be worth it.
Maybe they’ve done the research and decided against making it public because it wasn’t what they wanted to see.
Just sell off the product line, destroy all that research/shuffle the researchers around, and the acquirer is none-the-wiser.
But they were sure to erase any anatomical hole depictions on the packaging.
You sit in a chair or lay down on a table (my preference) and someone who does this all day long, puts a bright light near your ear and uses a razor to cut off the hair on the outsides of your ears (if you have any) and then uses a bunch of different tools [0] to extract out all the ear wax and anything else in there. I always come out feeling like my hearing is more 'clear'.
They literally touch your eardrum and the feeling is somewhere on the edge of uncomfortable, but oh so good at the same time. At the end, they use a very fuzzy q-tip and it makes this wonderful noise and feeling.
Of course, I've heard horror stories about this not going well. Punctured eardrums, infections, etc... but the fact is that literally millions of people every day get this service in Vietnam. You see people all over getting it in shops. You also learn quickly that if you don't like something, move your head away and they stop immediately.
If you get this often enough, you should purchase your own set of 'tools' (about $4-6) that you carry with you and have them sanitize them each time before use. I went to a whole bunch of different people and eventually found a few places that I liked a lot. For the most part the service is the same all over, but everyone has their own unique different technique too.
[0] https://chamsoccothe.com/uploads/images/san-pham/lay-ray-tai...
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1215255/rare-practic...
https://www.hospitalhealth.com.au/content/aged-allied-health...
So neat how everyone is different in this relatively small regard.
Ymmv, but to me letting other people poke in your ears is quite up there with letting them run a blade against your eyelids.
It is one of the 'standard' grooming things that you can take advantage of se asia. Grooming is really common because it is so inexpensive. Why cut your own toe nails when you can have someone who does it all day long do it for $2?
https://www.livescience.com/593-earwax-wet-dry.html#:~:text=....
Several years back it got quite bad, so I went to an ENT doctor in SF and they did this suction thing. It felt so strange but it worked like magic.
Even jingling my keys was a bit sensitive at first until my eardrum got used to the sound again due to (probably) having a clearer surface area.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9KWuwiKXvM&ab_channel=YOU-G...
I once woke up at 3:30 in the AM to the sensation of something crawling on my face. I sat up quickly and attempted to brush it off, but missed and the thing dashed into my ear. It went all the way in and nestled up to my ear drum. After getting over the initial uncertainty of not knowing whether it was that kind that bites, I thought I'd hang tight until the urgent care facility opened at 8:30 and have them take it out. But it moved around frequently, which made a significant sound as it rubbed against the tympanum, so there was no way I was going to sleep.
Yes, it is as unpleasant as you imagine it would be.
I couldn't stand the various maladies I dreamed up that might befall my hearing and after about an hour, I drove myself to the emergency room.
Here's where it's relevant to the story. At first, they couldn't see it with their otoscope, so they cleaned my ear out. In order to open space for a better look, they scooped out a disturbingly large amount of ear wax. I was surprised at this, as I do use Q-Tip daily and couldn't imagine that I'd missed that much wax when cleaning (I hadn't, Q-Tip doesn't reach there). And I'd recently had a full audiologist exam that found no issues. I asked the Dr. about it as he was locating the bug and he said that actually, the earwax in the ear canal is part of the body's protections against germs & viruses, and the amount removed was typical. Once the wax was out, he could see the thing.
They then 'paralyzed' it by squirting in an anesthetic so it wouldn't cling to my ear canal, then washed the ear out, and the bug came out.
$1,850 lighter, I headed home.
So. Learning that I could have had an eargasm and saved that small fortune, well, it's good to know for next time I'm in Vietnam with a bug in my ear.
For those who absolutely have to know... it was a silverfish. Ick.
2) Heh, it's actually a standard board exam question about "homeless guy comes in with scratching in one ear." The official answer is that you /don't/ scope first, because if it's a roach, the sudden light can make them scrabble deeper. Which is actually funny, since different bugs respond differently - there have been case reports where people have reported repeated success with taking the patient to a darkened room, opening the ear as much as possible, and having a light pointed near the outside of the ear - luring the bug to crawl out on its own.
Actually, on second thought, I don't know if it's a "standard" board question. Rather, it was something I studied for boards once upon a time. I'm not in EM/FM, so it's not something I've ever had come up again.
would certainly try this before anything else. I use 1/4 3% peroxide, 1/4 70% isopropyl, and 1/2 water - if its too strong it will be uncomfortable.
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20181029-in-china-chengdus-p...
I suspect whether you have liquid or solid earwax (genetics) makes a huge difference.
Every Japanese shop sells bamboo or plastic earpicks (and more exotic materials like titanium) designed to scoop out the gunk from your ears.
And then you have these French cotton buds that have a small flexible spoon-like end on one side:
https://www.quies.com/product/otospoon-dual-action-earwax-re...
> There are stories of customers leaving wives for ear pickers and a life of in-home ear pleasure.
The Wikipedia article for ear picks implies that it is necessary because of the dry earwax type. The source says:
> Dry wax, most common in Orientals and Native Americans, is gray and dry. It is flaky and may form a thin mass that lies in the ear canal.
I have quite clean ears already, but usually what I see removed (they put it on the back of your hand usually) is flaky dry skin. That said, I go for the eargasm experience more than the ear cleaning itself. It is a nice relaxing thing for me and fits into the culture of grooming there.
For example, a doctor prescribed two medications (A, B) to take twice per day. Yet there is an alternate medication (C) for one of them (B) that can be given 3 times per day, which reduces blood level fluctuations resulting in better symptom management. She told me that they don't usually prescribe that one because they don't trust the parents of their patients to correctly administer one drug only twice per day (A) when giving the other drug (C) 3 times (they are worried about overdoses of the twice daily medication A).
If you've had issues with your ear, you'll know that many treatments sound alot like the problems describe. People with lots of issues will have a procedure where they cut the eardrum and insert a tube. Or have a vaccuum or waterjet pull out earwax.
Are there people who will compulsively clean their ears and cause a buildup of wax? Probably. The only difference between that and people who damage their teeth or nose by picking is that they are using an implement to do so.
> ...She told me that they don't usually prescribe that one because they don't trust the parents of their patients to correctly administer one drug only twice per day (A) when giving the other drug (C) 3 times (they are worried about overdoses of the twice daily medication A).
I wonder if they're not even worrying about "the average person", but a kind of "lowest common denominator" person. Depending on how severe an "overdose" is, that might be totally the right call. Even if only 1 in 100 patients would mess up and OD, prescribing the less-effective combination would actually end up helping a lot of patients.
IMHO, software engineers also end up infantilizing their users with similar "lowest common denominator" thinking, but usually with less justification.
Now engineers can (& do) get the analysis wrong (the famous "I can't send e-mail more than 500 miles). I don't think it happens with any less regularity than doctors. Thankfully our problem domain allows us to adjust the guard rails for a problem domain, or build better guard rails.
I totally understand that, but I think it's far less justifiable to design non-safety-critical systems for a brainless lowest common denominator user than it is for things that are arguably safety-critical (like the dosing mentioned in the GGP), because then you end up with something like a world where the only books available (even to adults) are children's books.
There’s also something to be said for sensible abstractions. Even if the power users don’t have the control they want, the solution works for 90% of all other users. For an example of this look to Apple. They regularly sacrifice the power users for the security and convenience of the general customer. From a profit, support and just pure “% of satisfied users” that’s the right balance. Don’t get me wrong. They don’t get it right for every single little thing, but in aggregate when there’s a conflict and your market is the “general” user, trying to stay appealing to the power users is still likely the wrong choice.
There's something to be said for writing some things in some kind of Simple English [1], but it's quite different to take the position that most things should be written in it. Too often modern system designers seem to take something analogous to the latter position.
Ignorant people are like children, infantiles. And we are ignorant in different things, by in many things. There's a reason you infantilise infantiles, do you not?
At the simplest, it would just remind me when it is time to take pills and tell you which pills to take. That could help with the confusion of having pill A on a twice a day schedule and pill C on a thrice a day schedule.
Better would be if you could also show the app your pills using your device's camera when you first start a new prescription. Then when you take your scheduled doses you could show the app what pills you are going to take and it could check that you have the right number of pills and they are the right colors and shapes and sizes.
You can already get technology-supported boxes but it seems to me that each extra 'check' step is likely to contribute to more failure cases.
But it’s just pure satisfaction to hear the Pop Rocks crackling in my ear (“that means it’s working!”), and the clarity of my hearing afterward.
As an adult I got a cholesteatoma in that same ear, which is probably directly related to the issue that caused so many infections in my younger days. I had surgery to remove it, and now I have to visit the surgeon once a year for ear cleaning because that ear doesn't self-clean so efficiently anymore.
I have to use oil drops the night before so it isn't painful. I really dislike getting it done, but it sure feels better afterward.
I've tried those effervescing concoctions, and I'm not convinced they actually do very much at all. It does sound really cool though.
Incidentally, Debrox is carbamide peroxide, which is basically equivalent to hydrogen peroxide. Debrox is $11/oz on Amazon, while hydrogen peroxide is around $.50/oz.
For something that's not often done, $11 isn't too bad for not having to play chemist.
Regardless of whether future evidence may demonstrate that salt is bad for you, or that q-tips are bad for you, this sort of thing seems to be the medical field's version of the urban legend. Everybody believes X because they heard someone else -- maybe a professor at school -- stating it, but ultimately it has little scientific basis, and it takes years to root it out. I wonder how often this happens, and what can be done to counter it.
High sodium intake is only associated with increased risk in people with high blood pressure. However, having too little sodium is associated with increased risk regardless of blood pressure. Source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
Cerumen will thinly coat the ear canal to protect it. When you mess with that flow, you create little build-ups, kind of like road traffic. This accumulates and create the equivalent of a traffic jam.
This is also why Q-tips users swear by them: they are creating the issue that requires the Q-tips in the first place.
Worth noting that not all humans have the same kind of cerumen. There is wet cerumen (dominant, 50%) and dry cerumen (20%). It depends on your genetic. If you are asian, chances are that your cerumen will be harder and require scooping out. Again, this is done with a little spoon by a third-party or by using one carefully (they also come with cameras and flashlights). You remove the build-up with accuracy, you don't just jam cotton in there and randomly scrape at your ear canal.
If you want demographics, I've found online that: "dry earwax is very common (80-95 per cent) among East Asians, but is lower (30-50 per cent) in southern Asia, Pacific Islands, Central Asia and Asia Minor, and in Native North Americans and Inuit peoples of Asian ancestry. It's very uncommon among Europeans and Africans (0-3 per cent)". http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/04/14/4213402.ht...
I think the issue is that there is little evidence for Q-tips causing problems. With sincere respect, to me, this sounds like a "just-so story", a plausible-sounding explanation without actual basis.
> "Again, this is done with a little spoon by a third-party or by using one carefully (they also come with cameras and flashlights). You remove the build-up with accuracy, you don't just jam cotton in there and randomly scrape at your ear canal."
It sounds like the issue is not "little spoon" versus "cotton swab" but "accuracy" versus "jamming". Anyone jamming anything in their ear is gonna have problems, whether or not it's a little spoon or a cotton swab. If you can acknowledge that people can carefully use a little spoon on their own just by care and feel, then logically you would have to acknowledge that some people, perhaps those with wet earwax, can do the same with cotton swabs.
Also, I use them for other things too such as cleaning electronics with alcohol where more pressure is often needed.
What is more important is to dispose of them correctly so that they don't end up on the beach in the first place.
> There are two distinct genetically determined types of earwax: the wet type, which is dominant, and the dry type, which is recessive. While East Asians, Southeast Asians and Native Americans are more likely to have the dry type of cerumen (gray and flaky), African and European people are more likely to have the wet type (honey-brown, dark orange to dark-brown and moist).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earwax
So, the effectiveness of any tool is going to be wildly different for a 'wet' type vs a 'dry' type. And, the ability to be "impacted" will vary as well.
Datapoint of one... but why should I change what I'm doing if it's working? Some times I've gone on trips without qtips and the resulting sensation after a few days is distractingly unpleasant. (Incidentally a little rolled up toilet paper works alright in a pinch.)
Examples:
1.Teddy Roosevelt used Cigars to help his asthma, as a child, at a doctor's recommendation. (Examples exist for many drugs gone awry)
2. Alcohol based mouthwash was working at killing bad breath (temporarily), but leading to worse breath and more gingivitis in the long run.
3. Enemas and Douching.
Directly:
You experience discomfort immediately upon stopping cleaning (likely much like immediately after shaving), your time, your resources, waste.
Anecdotal. I don't use qtips, have never had a doctor say I have any bad ear wax buildup. I do have occasional outer ear infections.
> You experience discomfort immediately upon stopping cleaning
In the case of qtips, I experience a sensation of satisfaction immediately after stopping. The discomfort, several days later, comes from the ear wax, and is immediately relieved with another qtip. There is no trend of it getting worse. My frequency of use has not changed in 30 years. It is comparable to cleaning my teeth, my mouth feels gross when I don't, so I do.
These links also indicate alcohol can lead to oral cancer, killing of good bacteria.
https://www.sharecare.com/health/healthy-oral-hygiene/effect...
https://www.prairiedental.com/blog/alcohol-vs-alcohol-free-m...
(I rather suspect that having a buildup of stuff in your ear is more likely to host bacteria and other such.)
But now... no more. The time of anti-Q-tip tyranny is at an end!!
"American Academy of Otolaryngology"
AAO is presumably a governing medical body
AAO = (I am guessing) American Association of Otolaryngology (head and neck surgery, which includes the ear - basically ENT surgery)
AAO I do not know.
YMMV of course, particularly since earwax consistency is apparently something that varies considerably between different populations.
But when I see people use them in both ears simultaneously, I cringe. Better hope you don't have a seizure or sneeze while doing that.
Maybe letting it build up then trying to use a q-tip causes impaction?
I did this a while ago and it absolutely made the problem 100x worse, had to get it vacuumed out at the ENT. The earwax had apparently gotten stuck to my eardrum. Consistent q-tip use (like brushing teeth) seems fine, but I'll NEVER again attempt to clear out any kind of blockage with them.
The next time I tried using one suddenly couldn't hear in one year.
Two days of using ear wax drops later, a giant ear wax plug slid out of my ear canal.
I got one after I had to have a doctor unblock my ear. I use it once a month or so and haven't had any problems since.
Dietary cholesterol is not bad for you. At all.
Saturated fat is not bad for you. At all.
Sugar is all kinds of bad. The more they look, the worse it gets. Particularly fructose and sucrose. (Glucose is fine.)
Meat still causes heart trouble, but it's not the saturated fat at fault. After all these decades, we still don't know what is. Nobody was looking, because "sat fat!"
Works much better than a qtip in my experience.
Obviously make sure you are alone and in a place where you won't be startled or jostled or otherwise put yourself in a situation where you jam the bobby pin into your ear drum.
The amount of junk that gets built up in your ears is pretty impressive.
the have the perfect shape, to remove the wax,
been using it for years. make sure you brush the Wooden Coffee Stirrers against something like your jeans or shirt, to unsharpen the edges.
The common parroted advice is not to use slow cookers for this because they don't get hot enough to destroy toxins in some bean varieties - this seems to be based on slow cookers not reaching above 80C though, when I'd say most slow cookers get much hotter than this.
> cotton tipped swabs (that’s the generic term for Q-tip)
Pretty sure it's actually "cotton buds". That's what they are called outside America.
The generic term is "cotton swab" in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_swab
However, I've literally never heard the term "cotton tipped swabs" used anywhere.
This warning always struck me as exaggerated caution, like telling kids to never ever touch a pair of scissors, just to avoid the possible risk of them running with scissors, which has a possible risk of them tripping onto scissors.
> This warning always struck me as exaggerated caution, like telling kids to never ever touch a pair of scissors, just to avoid the possible risk of them running with scissors, which has a possible risk of them tripping onto scissors.
That's definitely a qualifying case.
It's quite valid to want to avoid rare but extreme outcomes. For instance: maybe most kids can run with scissors with only minor issues, but then there's that one kids who gives themselves a horrible injury one day in kindergarten that's traumatic to everyone (e.g. ends up stabbing themselves in the eye, possibly resulting in blindness or even brain damage).
No, that's not my approach. Literally no one but you is saying that "cotton swabs are 'dangerous' and must never be used." What people are saying is to not jab them in your ear canal (e.g. avoid using them in risky ways akin to running with scissors).
> This mindset is problematic and does not help one bit.
The mindset of exaggerating everyone else's position into a straw man of hyperbole is problematic and does not help one bit.
The left/right ear differences may have to do with the majority of people being right handed. If you are using a Q-tip on your own ear, you have to use the same sided hand to clean the ear. Thus, you probably do a better job with your right ear than with your left ear, if, like most people, you are right handed.
I wouldn't exactly call it "basically no evidence" as he says in the article, the correlation is very strong and the mechanism seems plausible.
> Disclaimer: I am not a doctor; even if I’m 100% right in my argument and you are 100% convinced by it, you shouldn’t listen to me over actual doctors; it’s a bad habit that might actually kill you.
At least in the U.S., with for-profit medicine, you cannot and should not trust doctors. There is a financial motivation that is misaligned with trying to help you; they (and their employers) have very twisted incentives to try to get you to do procedures that are at best unnecessary and expensive, but at worst potentially damaging to your health.
I've seen and dealt with it enough times in my life, and came to the frustrating conclusion that you really just have to look out for yourself. Don't rely on doctors unless you know them personally.
Not that it's super related to this Q-Tip thing. I just had to take issue with this, because I hear it so often, and it is really just a lazy cover-your-ass line.
This is an insanely over-cynical take. While there definitely are doctors who run their practices like a crudely-capitalist business [1], that's not what typically gets people into medicine. You mainly just need to be engaged in your own care and seek second opinions for anything major or if you're having doubts. IMHO, it's more likely you'll have find yourself with an incompetent doctor than one who's trying to screw you.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/upshot/covid-testing-doct...
Maybe the advice is a white lie—e.g. to protect PPE supply in the case of masks—or maybe it has a certain delicious counter-intuitiveness that makes the speaker feel wise, which means it gets repeated more frequently over time, thus crowding out competing ideas. Or maybe it's an attitude on the part of doctors of "common people can't be trusted to do it correctly," so they default to the standard advice of "don't."