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Comment by peteretep | Hacker News Reader

That seems bizarre — you’re much more likely to be able to get it privately in India or Thailand or any other country that has good healthcare for the rich and few qualms about allowing people to buy in private stock. Much easier to pay $500 to a private clinic in Mumbai than fly to the West and hope that you can convince the state to provide it

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The state will not provide it to non-residents. As soon as you arrive in the UK, immigration stamps "no recourse to public funds" in black all-caps into your passport as a friendly reminder.

In this specific instance, you're probably right that there will be paperwork.

However, in general, acute healthcare in free in the UK and does not even require ID. I don't know if that's how it's "meant" to be, but that's how it is; if you're on vacation in the UK and something bad happens, you can just turn up at the nearest hospital and it will get sorted out, no bill no fuss.

How it’s “meant” to be is that you’re asked for where you’re registered, and your NHS records are pulled up, and if you’re not registered at a GP practice or in the NHS system you get a bill

But I think there are some exceptions for communicable diseases, which they will treat without attempting to bill you. I doubt vaccination would fall under that but don't really know.

That's not what happens, though. You can just say "I'm not registered with a GP" (and many people aren't), and you will still be treated - no bill.

If you aren't registered with a GP and have no records at the hospital there are other ways to check, for instance your National Insurance records. It's not easy to get away without paying if you are an ineligible person.

That's not the case. There's no such thing as a single NHS records system. There's 4 separate NHS systems for each constituent country of the UK. If you go to A&E they cannot generally see your GP records - if they can, it's usually limited so for e.g. if you live in the same local NHS trust as the hospital is in.

Foreign nationals without a visa (and non-resident British people, like me now) do receive a bill. I used to work in the department that recovers the money.

The rates are in an excel file linked on this page. Visitors pay 150% of the published rate. https://improvement.nhs.uk/resources/national-tariff/

Out of curiosity, what kind of money we are talking about? For example checking up sprained ankle at A&E? Many of my friends being disappointed with NHS go for example to Mexico for private treatment and it works much better that doing it here, plus you can enjoy the climate and great food.

Not giving medical advice but you probably shouldn't be going to A&E for a sprained ankle unless it's very serious or a suspected break.

For people who are not ordinarily resident in the UK an A&E admission costs £100-£500 plus any tests and treatment. There's a small amount of margin which is used to offset the cost of recovering the money and the fact that sometimes the bills go unpaid.

Yeah most of the NHS hospitals I know have "Minor Injury Units" - I generally think that if you can make your own way there they it probably isn't one for A&E.

Mind you the last time I went for something I thought wasn't very serious (a cat bite) I was told to go to A&E pretty quickly!

I see, so it is not the kind of situation when you need to consider getting mortgage to pay off the medical bill. It was just an example. General advice I heard is that when you can't go to GP and walk-in is either too far away or closed, you can go to A&E or call 111 for instructions.

It's not like the US system where people have to choose whether or not to call an ambulance but it's obviously better for visitors to come with health insurance since a policy covering most emergency healthcare, and various other eventualities that could happen on a trip, is probably around US$10-20 pp.

I think doctors have to ask for ID if they suspect someone is not eligible for free treatment. I know this happened for two of my friends and they had to show ID at A&E, but that was during the heat of Brexit campaign, so this could make doctors feel encouraged to do such checks. I have not heard about it for a long time now though.

There's not even any plans to offer vaccines privately in the UK yet. The NHS isn't going to offer it to travellers.

Not NHS, but what’s stopping private companies from purchasing from pfizer at 10x markup and selling to willing customers?

Doubt Pfizer has much spare stock just sitting around at this point, and also I’m guessing you’d need an import license for it. But I’d imagine once there’s plenty to go around you’ll absolutely start to see private offerings.

They could theoretically try to order it I suppose, but they're going to be at the end of a very long backlog.

Do we actually know all the details of who they’ve contracted with? I wouldn’t be surprised if private healthcare providers in the UK already got their place in line.

I'd be somewhat surprised. In Ireland this year the _flu_ vaccine wasn't generally available privately, as the HSE took all available supply. Health authorities should be expected to be even more aggressive with covid vaccines.

I don't think private parties will have any access to vaccine for a while.

Can you imagine the shit storm if some wealth person got vaccinated ahead of the doctors treating dying Covid patients. Ain't gonna happen.

> Can you imagine the shit storm if some wealthy person got vaccinated ahead of the doctors

In an ideal world, I suppose not. But, in the real world, I think I can. Yes.

I've already heard stories about people in both China and Russia using bribes/connections to get themselves or relatives into vaccine trials. In particular, the Chinese military has been vaccinating its own since June.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-vaccine-approved-milita...

Not really bribes, just go to the Taihe Hospital in Beijing and pay to be vaccinated. The Chinese are more laid back about regulating stuff. https://time.com/5902646/china-covid-19-vaccine/

It sounds like in some countries, the rich will be able to get the vaccine ahead of official channels - eg. https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/uae-team-emirates-...

On the contrary, vaccinations started early in November in the UAE. They are using the weaker Chinese vaccine though.

This kind of egregious injustice happens daily.

This will, too.

Well celebrities were tested before frontline workers.

The production so far has been funded through government contracts.

Some time in the future - maybe nothing. Right now - all current and future doses for many months (if not years) are accounted for in existing contracts. Selling the doses to private parties, especially at 10x markup would be a huge PR disaster and invitation to AGs to open investigations.

Pfizer's production is ordered for months out.

I would be gobsmacked if it isn’t available privately. I’m sure someone is planning it.

I’d guess that wide spread availability privately will coincide with when the highest risk groups have been vaccinated and then the government will say it’s “only right and proper” that people who aren’t very much at risk, who “can pay, should pay” rather than “burdening” the NHS and timed that they won’t look too callous.

Why would they do that? If they are providing it free to those at high risk, why not provide it free to those at low risk? Why would they charge for this particular treatment when all other treatments are free? How could they ensure those who are poor and cannot afford to pay still get vaccinated?

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